The National Trust for Historic Preservation puts out a yearly list of America's 11 Most Endangered Historic Places, and this year two of Cincinnati's most historic buildings (possibly Cincinnati's two MOST historic buildings) have made the list. Now city hall is trying to figure out how to plan their budget to address the necessary measures to restore and upkeep the buildings.

 

They're looking at raising Hamilton County sales tax by 1/4 of a percent to cover the costs, but the proposal is automaticall making Hamilton County residents bristle after their experience with sales tax hikes to pay for the football and baseball stadiums.

 

Why Planners Say The Music Hall, Union Terminal Tax Won't Be Like The Stadium Tax - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

"Paul Brown Stadium, Great American Ball Park and the crippling Hamilton County budget situation their construction and leases helped cause is foremost on the minds of those proposing a 0.25 percent countywide sales tax increase to fund repairs to Union Terminal and Music Hall.

 

Cincinnatians have long memories, and the 18-year-old stadium tax is widely viewed to have soured the public’s view of tax increases for facilities. If Hamilton County commissioners allow a public vote, Union Terminal and Music Hall supporters will have to persuade voters this tax is different."

I received an email today from the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra that offered the following information:

"For instance, the Cultural Facilities Task Force determined that delaying by one year would result in:

• $15 million in additional construction costs from inflation and deterioration;
  
• $12 million (if interest rates go up even slightly) to $52 million if they increase a full percentage point; and
  
• Loss of $32 million in private philanthropic contributions have been made contingent upon both Union Terminal and Music Hall being restored as a result of the Task Force's recommended path.
  

"

I received an email today from the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra that offered the following information:

"For instance, the Cultural Facilities Task Force determined that delaying by one year would result in:

• $15 million in additional construction costs from inflation and deterioration;
  
• $12 million (if interest rates go up even slightly) to $52 million if they increase a full percentage point; and
  
• Loss of $32 million in private philanthropic contributions have been made contingent upon both Union Terminal and Music Hall being restored as a result of the Task Force's recommended path.
  

"

 

What is the total cost of the project? Article's not real clear on that.

 

I'm of the opinion you can't just let $32 million die on the vine.

What is the total cost of the project? Article's not real clear on that.

 

I'm of the opinion you can't just let $32 million die on the vine.

 

This article from the Enquirer says they need $150 million for Union Terminal, and $100 million for Music Hall.

 

Sales Tax Floated For Union Terminal & Music Hall Fixes

 

From the article:

 

"At 81-year-old Union Terminal, the historic art deco train station in Queensgate that is home to the Cincinnati Museum Center, a renovation is needed to remedy deterioration from decades of structural and water damage. Just behind the expansive rotunda, warped walls, rusted steel and crumbling ceilings threaten the building's long-term survival. The last cost estimate reported by The Enquirer showed $150 million was needed.

 

At 136-year-old Music Hall in Over-the-Rhine, a reconfiguration is needed in Springer Auditorium, the main concert hall. Past plans have included reopening bricked-over windows; extending the stage into space now occupied by seats; updating electrical, plumbing and cooling systems; improving backstage production facilities; and adding new office and restaurant space. The last cost estimate reported by The Enquirer showed $100 million was needed."

 

...

 

"Every year that goes by adds $10 million to the projects, according to the task force."

 

...

 

"A quarter-cent sales tax would bring in roughly $35 million a year."

Wow, that's a lot of cabbage. Sad that they let them deteriorate to this point. Nothing like kicking the can down the road for lack of political will.

Wow, that's a lot of cabbage. Sad that they let them deteriorate to this point. Nothing like kicking the can down the road for lack of political will.

 

But with the $35 million per year that the sales tax would generate, that's only 7 years to pay off the whole deal.

Yet the are building a light rail that leads to no where. I'm so glad I live in NKY and not across the border. That money shpuldne gone towards those projects or any other project but the stupid light rail.

Union Terminal didn't appear to be in any kind of disrepair last year when we were there. Place was crazy crowed for some reason, I'm not sure what the attraction is of that place.

Union Terminal didn't appear to be in any kind of disrepair last year when we were there. Place was crazy crowed for some reason, I'm not sure what the attraction is of that place.

 

It's all the behind-the-scenes stuff that needs repairs there - and with both buildings, to a large extent. Most of the infrastructure for plumbing and electric in both buildings is frighteningly sub-par, and much of it is held together by stop-gap patchwork from the last 30+ years. The fact that the Union Terminal building has a VERY unique roof has led to more leaks than are really imaginable in its 81 years of existence, and as I understand it, the foundation leaks have also led to some significant detriment to the structural members of the building.

Union Terminal didn't appear to be in any kind of disrepair last year when we were there. Place was crazy crowed for some reason, I'm not sure what the attraction is of that place.

 

Also, to point out a common problem, the average voter likely has the same perspective that you do, JD. "I've been there, and I couldn't see need for $150 million in repairs."

 

When an average person walks in and sees a beautiful building that is operating a fairly successful business inside, it's hard to see where the repairs are necessary without having some understand of how much 1930's era building materials can degrade over the years - particularly when they haven't really been attended to much in that time period. And understanding the cost of removing and replacing building infrastructure while trying to maintain the use of a building - well those costs can be absolutely mindblowing.

 

Just an example, when I was building Kroger stores with the company I used to work with, the cost to demolish the 90,000 sqft Ft. Mitchell store and replace it with a brand new 118,000 sqft store, including a new Kroger gas station, was about $13.5 million - and that was including a CRAZY 7 month schedule to complete everything. The cost to do an interior renovation of a comparable 87,000 sqft Kroger store in Louisville a year and half prior was $9.5 million, and it took 11 months to complete. Almost always, the cost of completely refurbishing an existing building - PARTICULARLY a historic building - will be more than the cost of building a new structure from the ground up.

Side note about the 1930s-era buildings:

 

In general, weren't a lot of public buildings constructed during that period mostly WPA and other Roosevelt New Deal projects? If I'm not mistaken, weren't a lot of those era buildings also constructed with a "throw in the kitchen sink" mentality in terms of layers of materials not necessarily needed but added to the structure just to keep men working?

Side note about the 1930s-era buildings:

 

In general, weren't a lot of public buildings constructed during that period mostly WPA and other Roosevelt New Deal projects? If I'm not mistaken, weren't a lot of those era buildings also constructed with a "throw in the kitchen sink" mentality in terms of layers of materials not necessarily needed but added to the structure just to keep men working?

 

There was DEFINITELY some of that that came out of the New Deal. However, the Union Terminal was not a New Deal project. A terminal building of its like was initially proposed for Cincinnati by the major railroad companies serving the area around the turn of the century, and its construction came as a result of 30+ years of discussion and 15+ years of actual negotiation between the city and the railroads - thus proving that Cincinnati's habit of dragging its feet when it comes to making progress is NOTHING new.

There was DEFINITELY some of that that came out of the New Deal.

 

Gotcha. I remember talking to workers at WKU 20 years ago who were doing some demo on one of the older classroom buildings and they were complaining that they were going to work harder tearing out old infrastructure than they would doing the actual remodeling job. It got me intrigued and I'd read a little bit more about this phenomenon elsewhere, but didn't really know how widespread it was.

I'm sorry, but who gives a crap.

 

If a private individual wants to pay to keep it around and feels they can turn a profit by doing it - more power to them.

 

If tax dollars are needed to do this - Then tear the old dilapidated place down and replace it with something that is modern and able to be maintained for half the cost.

 

Why should I (and thousands of other people) be forced to maintain a constant drain on my tax dollars.

I'm sorry, but who gives a crap.

 

If a private individual wants to pay to keep it around and feels they can turn a profit by doing it - more power to them.

 

If tax dollars are needed to do this - Then tear the old dilapidated place down and replace it with something that is modern and able to be maintained for half the cost.

 

Why should I (and thousands of other people) be forced to maintain a constant drain on my tax dollars.

 

History Schmistory, eh? How noble.