The only real issue is the Private School vs. Public School. I dont think the numbers are the real issue.

 

??

Enrollment is the issue in eastern Kentucky.

First of all Knott Central has an enrolment of 618 students....second KCC dids not ask to be considered as an All A school, We were told we were eligible to play in the ALL A 14th Region Tournament: SO WE WILL! As far as insinuating we hid students WE DID NOT and I challange you to prove it! Evidently you must have experience in juggling numbers!

 

 

They may have changed their minds because it has been several weeks since I last talked to any of the KCC folks, but the last word I got from them on this issue was that they were leaning toward opting out of the tournament. Not an enrollment numbers issue, but a scheduling issue. They are planning some big things for their team next year and need this time for regular season games. Just what I was told!

Not true. The rules have not been changed ... the All A Classic uses the same enrollment guidelines that it always has. It's just that several schools that didn't qualify for the tournament 15 years ago now do so because of declining enrollment.

They used to count grades 9-12 and now they count grades 10-12. AND they count it first semester, allowing many holdback 2nd time freshman not to be counted.

Our gripe is that it needs to be counted 9-12 and done so for maybe four consecutive years so that it is harder to get in if you are not a true all A school. If not, Ky. needs a class size system.

Used to there were many medium sized schools and some small schools and a handfull of larger schools. Now all the medium sized schools have consolidated and now you have the larger consolidated schools and the small county schools like lee and owsley who have no schools to consolidate. It is time to fix the All A for what it is intended or to class size ky.

They may have changed their minds because it has been several weeks since I last talked to any of the KCC folks, but the last word I got from them on this issue was that they were leaning toward opting out of the tournament. Not an enrollment numbers issue, but a scheduling issue. They are planning some big things for their team next year and need this time for regular season games. Just what I was told!

That would be a classy move on Knott Centrals part.

They have always had first class citizens in Knott co. so I wouldn't doubt if this isn't true.

Okay, here are the most recent numbers from the KHSAA website dealing with enrollments for 14th region schools. This is a master listing average combined enrollment for the two year period of 2005 SY and 2006 SY.

The listing is for both 9-12 and 10-12.

 

 

Perry County Central : 1,010.0 (9-12) and 719.5 (10-12)

Letcher County Central: 990.5 and 665.5

Powell County: 735.5 and 534.5

Estill County: 692.0 and 476.0

Breathitt County: 672.0 and 445.5

Knott County Central: 649.5 and 424.5

Leslie County: 618.5 and 442.0

Lee County: 360.0 and 257.5

Wolfe County: 356.0 and 249.0

Hazard: 302.0 and 218.5

Owsley County: 232.5 and 169.5

Buckhorn: 212.0 and 158.5

Jenkins: 189.0 and 121.0

Jackson City: 118.0 and 80.5

Cordia: 98.5 and 74.0

June Buchanan School: 59.5 and 41.5

Riverside Christian: 32.0 and 23.0

So Knott County qualifies by 1/2 a student.....What did they do, cut somebody in half so they could qualify?....kidding, but that is awful close...

So Knott County qualifies by 1/2 a student.....What did they do, cut somebody in half so they could qualify?....kidding, but that is awful close...

Also, this would mean that Knott Co. would have 235 Freshman this year???? Times that by 4 and you would have 940 students. I know they won't be equal...but Wolfe, Lee, owsley, Buckhorn, June B, Hazard, and all of the true all a schools would NEVER in a million years have 235 freshman. The All A committee needs to look at this and make changes.

They used to count grades 9-12 and now they count grades 10-12. AND they count it first semester, allowing many holdback 2nd time freshman not to be counted.

Our gripe is that it needs to be counted 9-12 and done so for maybe four consecutive years so that it is harder to get in if you are not a true all A school. If not, Ky. needs a class size system.

Used to there were many medium sized schools and some small schools and a handfull of larger schools. Now all the medium sized schools have consolidated and now you have the larger consolidated schools and the small county schools like lee and owsley who have no schools to consolidate. It is time to fix the All A for what it is intended or to class size ky.

 

Trying to figure out what a "holdback 2nd time freshman" is?? Are they freshmen (failed 9th grade) or sophmores (promoted to 10th grade)--Not real hard to figure out?? Using logic (which often doesn't happen in these discussions) a 650 student school would have approximately 160-165 freshmen; but somehow you come up with 225? Are they saying they have 60 or so of these holdback, 2nd timers?? I can understand that you think something smells funny??

Trying to figure out what a "holdback 2nd time freshman" is?? Are they freshmen (failed 9th grade) or sophmores (promoted to 10th grade)--Not real hard to figure out?? Using logic (which often doesn't happen in these discussions) a 650 student school would have approximately 160-165 freshmen; but somehow you come up with 225? Are they saying they have 60 or so of these holdback, 2nd timers?? I can understand that you think something smells funny??

I was going by the numbers the "professor" gave in his post. Take their total # of students and then take the numbers 10-12 and then subtract from total and you get the number of freshman.

What I mean by 2nd time freshman is that site base councils can set the requirements to be sophomores in schools so that it is a credit or so higher and alot of freshman will remain freshman first semester of what would be their sophomore year (the time of the count to get into the all A). 2nd semester these students would then get their credits and be sophomores and then be juniors the next year. You do this to 30 or more students then you may qualify.....I'm not saying anyone currently did this, but it has been done in the past in the 14th region.

No way a true all A school would ever have 235 in their freshman class. Which, according to the Professors post....knott county has. AND the professor has been very reliable on these posts.

They used to count grades 9-12 and now they count grades 10-12.

Not true. Since it became a statewide tournament, the All A Classic has always used the figure of 425 students in the upper three grades.

Used to there were many medium sized schools and some small schools and a handfull of larger schools. Now all the medium sized schools have consolidated and now you have the larger consolidated schools and the small county schools like lee and owsley who have no schools to consolidate. It is time to fix the All A for what it is intended or to class size ky.

Exactly what constitues a "small school?" Each state has a different definition of a "Class A school" ... in Illinois, Class A goes up to 735 students, and in the girls' state tournament last weekend, three of the final four teams came from schools with enrollments under 300.

 

If different states use differing guidelines, why can't the All A Classic set their own guidelines?

I know the 10-12 guidelines came about to allow for some three year high schools, but I wonder how many high schools in the state actually have only three grades anymore?? I'd guess there are very few, and I'm not aware of any. Cincinnati has a few I believe, such as the Lakota districts where they have dedicated freshmen schools, but in KY?? It seems the problem lies with a few schools who "hide" kids, by calling 1st semester Sophs who lack a class or two, Freshmen!! Sounds like they could solve this issue by going to a 9-12 number, say 560-570 total; especially since virtually all are four year schools anyway!!

As of 2:45 PM today KCC has 615 students

 

9th Grade 202

10th Grade 158

11th Grade 125

12th Grade 130

 

This is OFFICIAL as I work for the Knott County BOE in Central Office..just thought I needed to clear a few things up!

I know the 10-12 guidelines came about to allow for some three year high schools, but I wonder how many high schools in the state actually have only three grades anymore?? I'd guess there are very few, and I'm not aware of any. Cincinnati has a few I believe, such as the Lakota districts where they have dedicated freshmen schools, but in KY?? It seems the problem lies with a few schools who "hide" kids, by calling 1st semester Sophs who lack a class or two, Freshmen!! Sounds like they could solve this issue by going to a 9-12 number, say 560-570 total; especially since virtually all are four year schools anyway!!

AMEN,

That would definitely solve the problem......Most all A school sports programs rely heavily upon their 9th graders to compete for their athletic programs.......why would they not count for the total enrollment. This opens it up for manipulation.

As of 2:45 PM today KCC has 615 students

 

9th Grade 202

10th Grade 158

11th Grade 125

12th Grade 130

 

This is OFFICIAL as I work for the Knott County BOE in Central Office..just thought I needed to clear a few things up!

That's probably Knott's current enrollment. My figures were from the KHSAA and were the average for the last two school years of 2005 and 2006. Of course, everyone's enrollment numbers change a little throughout the year, and evidently Knott's has dropped quite a bit since August. I'd say the All "A" more than likely uses the KHSAA numbers that has Knott's 10-12 enrollment 2 year average at 424 1/2, which probably originated from enrollment information turned into the KDE.