Read a story just tonight on what Illinois is doing to address its pension shortfall. Perhaps you and other contributors to the discussion could focus on real-life solutions rather than continue to castigate "big government liberals" and argue in abstract, jingoistic terms.

 

All I'm saying is any "solution" in Kentucky is likely going to cost teachers and state workers real retirement money, and that's a shame.

Use Illinois as a blueprint . Be serious. .

I thought hast year they were going to grandfather in all the current employees and retirees, but new employees will get a set amount when they retire .

 

Which would be a responsible solution . Programs setup decades ago are unsustainable as people live longer. As I've said in the past far left people like twotoplace don't like math. We have to evolve as tangible change happens.

We have to evolve as tangible change happens.

Thank you for making my point, Bash. Your definition of "evolution" is that it's OK to decrease benefits to Joe Worker after both sides have signed on the dotted line. Sorry, that's not acceptable to me. Then again, my allegiance is to the common working man. Yours ain't.

Use Illinois as a blueprint . Be serious. .

Big pension brouhaha in the Land of Lincoln. Read all about it.

 

Illinois pension reform bill approved by legislature | abc7chicago.com

Yes, public school teachers in Kentucky have reason to worry about their golden years. Especially if the state House ever swings GOP and Kentuckians elect a Scott Walker type as governor.

 

As an aside, total unfunded pension liability for all U.S. cities and counties: $574 billion.

 

Cost of the war to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq: $800 billion.

 

Or...you have a backup plan.

Thank you for making my point, Bash. Your definition of "evolution" is that it's OK to decrease benefits to Joe Worker after both sides have signed on the dotted line. Sorry, that's not acceptable to me. Then again, my allegiance is to the common working man. Yours ain't.

 

If a worker is close to retirement or retired we should do all we can to honor the benefits promised. Those early in career , future workers or those far from retirement may need benefit package adjusted. Happens in the private sector everyday. Its called the real world. You can't spend what you don't have.

Big pension brouhaha in the Land of Lincoln. Read all about it.

 

Illinois pension reform bill approved by legislature | abc7chicago.com

So I guess you like this only because its signed by Democrats because its identical to what I've been saying and what Republicans have passed in other states. Increased employee contribution and reduction in benefits from state sounds like Wisconsin. The difference with Detroit is they wouldn't even consider this kind of deal and now its to late.

If a worker is close to retirement or retired we should do all we can to honor the benefits promised. Those early in career , future workers or those far from retirement may need benefit package adjusted. Happens in the private sector everyday. Its called the real world. You can't spend what you don't have.

I love how you throw around terms such as "adjusted" and "evolve." Aren't those just euphemisms for saying "It's OK to screw the workers and retirees in order to balance the books." ??

 

By the way, isn't it against federal law for a private company to reduce an already-earned pension benefit? I believe so. However, from what I read, a judge now says it's perfectly OK to do same to public workers in Detroit because bankruptcy law trumps worker protections contained in Michigan's state constitution.

 

So if you want to talk about the "real world," how 'bout we give Detroit public workers the same protection we give P&G employees.

 

As far as Illinois, when did I say I approve of what the legislature did?

'Defined Benefit' retirement plans are another example of the the nanny state (and nanny business) failure. 'Trust us and we will take care of you until you die' is the mantra. Until they screw it up and everyone goes down with the ship. Big, centralized functions are filled with waste, corruption, manipulation and rarely benefit the 'working man'.

 

Most private sector companies have jettisoned their defined benefits retirement plan in favor of defined contribution. Or they just rely on 401Ks as the sole retirement vehicle. I went through that process a few years ago. I went the through the feeling of being cheated, etc. But looking back I like it now. I make the decisions on investing the money and do not have worry if the company will go bankrupt. Its nice to have an account with your name on it that you can control.

 

Defined benefit retirement plans are a dinosaur. Most government employee plans are way underfunded dinosaurs.

'Defined Benefit' retirement plans are another example of the the nanny state (and nanny business) failure. 'Trust us and we will take care of you until you die' is the mantra. Until they screw it up and everyone goes down with the ship. Big, centralized functions are filled with waste, corruption, manipulation and rarely benefit the 'working man'.

 

Most private sector companies have jettisoned their defined benefits retirement plan in favor of defined contribution. Or they just rely on 401Ks as the sole retirement vehicle. I went through that process a few years ago. I went the through the feeling of being cheated, etc. But looking back I like it now. I make the decisions on investing the money and do not have worry if the company will go bankrupt. Its nice to have an account with your name on it that you can control.

 

Defined benefit retirement plans are a dinosaur. Most government employee plans are way underfunded dinosaurs.

You'll be singing a different song when the market tanks six months before your retirement date. Public school teachers in KY now enjoy the benefits of both a defined benefits plan and a 457 plan, which is similar to a 401k. If the GOP ever controls the state House in addition to the Senate, look for legislation to end defined retirement benefits.

You'll be singing a different song when the market tanks six months before your retirement date. Public school teachers in KY now enjoy the benefits of both a defined benefits plan and a 457 plan, which is similar to a 401k. If the GOP ever controls the state House in addition to the Senate, look for legislation to end defined retirement benefits.

If you are 6 months away from retirement and haven't taken steps to ensure your 401K is safe from a market crash then that is on you.

 

As to the bold, we can only hope.

If you are 6 months away from retirement and haven't taken steps to ensure your 401K is safe from a market crash then that is on you.

 

As to the bold, we can only hope.

I get a kick out of all the tea party types on this chit-chat board who actually enjoy making life worse for the common working man.

I get a kick out of all the tea party types on this chit-chat board who actually enjoy making life worse for the common working man.

You seem to have a severe case of "Alinskyitus", LOL!!

You'll be singing a different song when the market tanks six months before your retirement date.

 

There are many 'markets'. If you are 6 months from retirement you better not be exposed the stock market. There is the bond market, the cash market and other markets. Not all of them will crash if the Dow tanks. Its called personal financial management. I do not need a magical retirement fund manager to perform responsible financial management of MY money.

 

 

Public school teachers in KY now enjoy the benefits of both a defined benefits plan and a 457 plan, which is similar to a 401k. If the GOP ever controls the state House in addition to the Senate, look for legislation to end defined retirement benefits.

 

As I have said 'defined benefits' plans are dinosaurs. They assume the retirement fund managers can perform as well as or better than the general market. History shows that is not the case. Kentucky specifically has over-estimated the annual return for many years. And the contributions have lagged as well. Then every one acts shocked to find the funds are completely underfunded.

 

'Defined contribution' turns the process into a standard operating expense and is much more predictable for the organization sponsoring it. This is why the private sector has gone this route. They pay into the accounts each month and its done. Also, the benefit to the employee is a mobile account since most employee's of private companies are no longer 'lifers'. Companies - big and small - no longer try to be the 'nanny' and trap you with a formula that rewards you for staying 30 years by giving a bunch of credit for those last 5 years of a 30 year career. It encourages those that are ROJ (Retired On the Job) to hang around just for that pop. Its a concept they have moved away from.

 

Government entities are the only ones hanging on to the dinosaur. And they have mis-managed the dinosaur. Regardless of political parties the piper will have to be paid - or in this case written off. The numbers are the numbers and they do not work. Eventually most government entities will have to face this looming crisis. Payouts will likely have to be cut and severe action taken. Converting to defined contribution is not a bad thing in and of itself. If it keeps radical slashes like Detroit from happening people should be happy - not fearful.

I get a kick out of all the tea party types on this chit-chat board who actually enjoy making life worse for the common working man.

 

Save you empty pointless talking points. You've proven time and time again you have zero interest in having an intelligent adult discussion about anything. You're happy just taking shots at the right and worshiping the "do no wrong" left with every post. You couldn't care less about the "common working man" because if you did you would realize the majority of common working men and women in this state will suffer if the broken defined benefits currently in place isn't fixed. You precious white knight democrat leaders refused to address it. When the tab comes due everyone will suffer.