But they also see those responsible teachers over react as do his friends and then they over react. Those kids may feed off of the teachers reactions. I mean over reactions.

 

I'm not arguing that the kid got a crappy deal here, he did.

 

What I am saying is we have become a society where all too often kids are not taught how to deal with the fact that life isn't fair. Bad things are going to happen to us. We are going to get the short end of the stick sometimes. We need to be able to deal with it and still function without letting those things turn us into mass murderers or push us to seek suicide as our only option. Hopefully his parents will be able to help him to do that.

I have a 10 year old. He loves to go camping. And quite honestly, he's still in the stage where he loves to do pretty much whatever Dad is doing. So, if I had a multipurpose tool/Swiss Army knife with me that I normally took camping...he'd love to have one too. And if he did have one, I can see him being soooooo excited to be going on a camping trip with his school, that he'd be getting all of our normal camping stuff out to take (flashlight, canteen, sleeping bag, etc.)...and I can easily see him thinking that his little Swiss Army knife would be part of that equipment. He wouldn't be thinking of it as a weapon, but rather, as a tool. And, in that sense, he may still be a little naive. But, I think for his age...it's still appropriate.

 

But, I can tell you, if he was pulled away from his group, put into isolation and told that he brought a "weapon", and not allowed to rejoin his classmates...he would be a basket-case. He would cry. He would be ashamed. And not only would he probably not want to ever go camping again...he probably would not want to go to school again (especially if it involved being in class with the teacher that was responsible for the actions)...and he may not even want to be around his classmates that knew what happened. That's just the way he would be. And I can't say that I would blame him (for the way he'd feel).

 

Now, I only know my son...and I know that he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. So, I can only speak for myself and my son. But, if his school took actions the same way this one did...I'd be mad as h-e-double toothpicks. I'm not saying it's right to bring the knife in the first place. Far from it. But, this would have been a gross overreaction, if it had been my son. This is different than if he brought the knife to school and pulled it out in class. They are in an environment where the knife is totally in context, and I can see where in a 10 year old's mind, he did nothing wrong.

 

No doubt there is a lot of truth to your post and I agree with you.

 

If that happened, what would be the best thing for your son, in terms of how you dealt with it/him?

 

I know it is hard to deal with hypotheticals, but I know I wouldn't want to feed those feelings of shame, not wanting to go to school, etc. For his sake, I think I would try to reassure him that he made a mistake but the punishment was way out of line. And at the same time, I would try to find a way to show him that the thing to do is put it behind him and move on. That may sound unsympathetic and harsh on my part, but I say that with my kids best interest at heart.

 

That said, you can bet the farm I would be meeting with the teacher and administrators of his school to straighten some things out. I just don't think I would make him aware of just how angry I might be or how those meetings might have gone.

No doubt there is a lot of truth to your post and I agree with you.

 

If that happened, what would be the best thing for your son, in terms of how you dealt with it/him?

 

I know it is hard to deal with hypotheticals, but I know I wouldn't want to feed those feelings of shame, not wanting to go to school, etc. For his sake, I think I would try to reassure him that he made a mistake but the punishment was way out of line. And at the same time, I would try to find a way to show him that the thing to do is put it behind him and move on. That may sound unsympathetic and harsh on my part, but I say that with my kids best interest at heart.

 

That said, you can bet the farm I would be meeting with the teacher and administrators of his school to straighten some things out. I just don't think I would make him aware of just how angry I might be or how those meetings might have gone.

 

Oh, no doubt I would address the situation with him. And I would start off with acknowledging the reason why he thought it was okay...and why it was still perhaps the wrong thing to do. Like I said, I'm not saying it's right for him to bring it (given the circumstances)...but, I would let him know that I understood why he did. Then, I would address why it was still wrong in this scenario.

 

And, yes, I would not want to feed those feelings of shame. However, the other kids may not be as "forgiving". And I can't be there 8 hours a day reassuring him that everythng is still alright. Let's face it, kids (even at age 10) can still be flat out mean, if they want to. And like a pack of jackells, once one starts, there's likely another one and another one and another one that'll join in. Doesn't make it right...but it's become reality.

 

So I would be right there with you meeting with the teacher and administrators (without my son being present). The thing I would be the most upset, is that the teacher has had him in class for nearly a year...and the principal has seen him for the past five. If they don't know him better than that...then THEY haven't been paying attention. Again, I can't speak for this specific kid or his teachers...only for my kid. Which, if it occured this way, would leave me madder than a wet hen.

Lots of assumptions here.

What if the teachers DID pay attention and knew something about the kid that would be cause for alarm? The general public could never know because of confidentiality issues.

Schools face a no-win in situations like these. Which of you would be defending the school if they let the kid continue the trip and he hurt someone else? Everyone would say that the school should have seen it coming. How could they miss the warning signs of a kid who brought a knife to the school event? How could they be so naive as to just act like nothing happened and let him keep on camping as if nothing ever happened?

I'm not saying that schools make correct decisions all the time, but there is usually a lot more to the story than ever makes the paper.

Lots of assumptions here.

What if the teachers DID pay attention and knew something about the kid that would be cause for alarm? The general public could never know because of confidentiality issues.

Schools face a no-win in situations like these. Which of you would be defending the school if they let the kid continue the trip and he hurt someone else? Everyone would say that the school should have seen it coming. How could they miss the warning signs of a kid who brought a knife to the school event? How could they be so naive as to just act like nothing happened and let him keep on camping as if nothing ever happened?

I'm not saying that schools make correct decisions all the time, but there is usually a lot more to the story than ever makes the paper.

 

Oh, I agree...lots of assumptions being made. That's why I tried to say only how I would feel, if it was my kid. Can't speak necessarily for this kid.

Lots of assumptions here.

What if the teachers DID pay attention and knew something about the kid that would be cause for alarm? The general public could never know because of confidentiality issues.

Schools face a no-win in situations like these. Which of you would be defending the school if they let the kid continue the trip and he hurt someone else? Everyone would say that the school should have seen it coming. How could they miss the warning signs of a kid who brought a knife to the school event? How could they be so naive as to just act like nothing happened and let him keep on camping as if nothing ever happened?

I'm not saying that schools make correct decisions all the time, but there is usually a lot more to the story than ever makes the paper.

 

This is where common sense needs to prevail and the people in charge need to realize that there is a gray area in certain situations. All of these rules seem fine on paper as a way of protecting our kids, but not all situations are black and white in real life.

What would common sense prevailing look like in this situation?

There usually is some room for professional judgement in most situations.

Real life is a relative term.

California. Say no more.

Common sense would be to remove the (tool/ weapon) from the student and inquire discretely why it was brought and determine a course of action at that point. Black and white says that the boy should be isolated from the other campers for fear of their safety? If an intelligent adult could determine that no harm was ever intended, it would be in everyone's best interest for the student to remain with the group and fully participate. Real life as I intended it to mean was everyday actions involving real people and not "on paper" scenarios.

I often carried a pocket knife when I was in high school. These zero tolerance rules that make no distinction between a Swiss Army knife on a camping trip and a Samurai sword in the school cafeteria are written to take all discretionary powers away from school administrators. We might as well design robots to manage public schools.

Common sense would be to remove the (tool/ weapon) from the student and inquire discretely why it was brought and determine a course of action at that point. Black and white says that the boy should be isolated from the other campers for fear of their safety? If an intelligent adult could determine that no harm was ever intended, it would be in everyone's best interest for the student to remain with the group and fully participate. Real life as I intended it to mean was everyday actions involving real people and not "on paper" scenarios.

 

It is naive to assume that the kid had no history of violent behavior, bullying issues or other indicators of violent tendencies because the school is not permitted to disclose that information.

An intelligent adult in education who assumes that no harm was intended puts themselves and their students in danger with that assumption. Safety must come first in today's educational world.

I know people like to blast schools. It comes with the territory. But the VAST majority of educators are intelligent people who love kids.

If this kid returned to the activity and DID hurt another student, everyone would be screaming that any intelligent adult could have seen it coming.

It is naive to assume that the kid had no history of violent behavior, bullying issues or other indicators of violent tendencies because the school is not permitted to disclose that information.

An intelligent adult in education who assumes that no harm was intended puts themselves and their students in danger with that assumption. Safety must come first in today's educational world.

I know people like to blast schools. It comes with the territory. But the VAST majority of educators are intelligent people who love kids.

If this kid returned to the activity and DID hurt another student, everyone would be screaming that any intelligent adult could have seen it coming.

It is naive to assume that the kid had a history of violent behavior, bullying issues or other indicators of violent tendencies. There need not be such a presumption of previous violent behavior on the part of the student because the school does not allow teachers and administrators any latitude for exercising common sense in this type of situation. The mother in this case was on the trip with her son but had ridden the bus to the event. The father was 100 miles away on a business trip and could not pick his son up for a one-day suspension and return him to the group a day later. Consequently, the school imposed a punishment that was about as close to solitary confinement as possible. The sensible thing to have done would have been to temporarily confiscate the boy's knife and impose the punishment on the first day of school following the trip - but school policy dictated the school's absurd response.

 

From the school's parent handbook:

 

ZERO TOLERANCE

Our district Board of Education has adopted a resolution of Zero Tolerance for violence, weapons, and drugs on school campuses or at school activities off campus. Zero Tolerance is a countywide project that brings together school boards, parents, students, school personnel, representatives of the juvenile justice system, elected officials, and other community members in a joint effort to ensure that our schools are free of weapons, violence and drugs.

 

State Law, district policy, and regulations of California Education Code support

Zero Tolerance

by requiring the immediate suspension and recommendation for expulsion of any student who possesses or furnishes a firearm, knife, explosive, or other similarly dangerous object on school grounds or at school events off school grounds. This policy is strictly enforced in the Cupertino Union School District.

 

Zero tolerance policies are a symptom of our broken, litigious society. They are written by lawyers to reduce potential liabilities for school districts and employees. They do not make students safer, nor do they contribute anything to the educational process.

I never stated that I assumed the kid did anything. My point is that we don't know.

 

If that is the policy of the school system, it sounds like the teachers and administrators who made this decision didn't have much choice in the matter and followed the policy set forth.

 

If we want to bash lawmakers then I can get on board with that.

This pretty much describes my feelings about those who are making decisions about education laws.