Correct answer and mine is not a quiz either...

 

Just a little known fact and RULE that most do not know.:thumb:

 

All I know is the Pythagorean Theorem is how you measure from home to 2nd base.

This isn't a quiz, but a little known fact.

 

When a runner is on 1st and 3rd a right handed pitcher can fake a throw to 3rd and turn and throw to 1st. Yet if a left handed pitcher in the same situation can not fake a throw to 1st and turn to check the runner at 3rd, if he does it's a balk. Only for left handed pitchers, never understood why but it is what it is.

the left handed pitcher can fake to first but he has to step off of the rubber first

This isn't a quiz, but a little known fact.

 

When a runner is on 1st and 3rd a right handed pitcher can fake a throw to 3rd and turn and throw to 1st. Yet if a left handed pitcher in the same situation can not fake a throw to 1st and turn to check the runner at 3rd, if he does it's a balk. Only for left handed pitchers, never understood why but it is what it is.

 

I wouldn't say it is little known;-), I don't know anyone who's been around baseball for more than a minute who is not aware of that move. The purpose of the move is to get the runner on first moving so it's easier to pick him off/keep him close. Since the runner on third is rarely moving on the pitch, it's not a terribly useful move for a lefthander to even try. The genesis of the move was the rule that a pitcher cannot fake a throw to first while in contact with the rubber, but can fake throws to 2nd or 3rd. Of course MLB has outlawed righthanders from doing this move as of this year, so it's kind of a moot point. I'm not sure if that rule has filtered down to the High School level though.

Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits soft liner to RF who traps ball, R3 easily scores, but R2 thinking ball was caught retreats to his original bases and R1 confused stops a few feet short of 2B and starts to go back to 1B. Defence now throws to 3B for the force out. After force out at 3B, BR passes the retreating R1 between 1B and 2B and is called out.

There is a throw made to 2B for the force there, but it is after BR has been called out for the third out.

 

Does the run count?

 

Any takers?

Any takers?

 

 

The run counts. Once the batter is called out, the force at second is removed, and had there been less than two outs, R1 could have returned to first. This is really no different than a double play situation where a ball is hit to the first baseman and he tags first (retiring the batter) and on the resulting throw to second, the fielder must tag the runner as the force was removed when the batter was retired.

The run counts. Once the batter is called out, the force at second is removed, and had there been less than two outs, R1 could have returned to first. QUOTE]

 

The batter was not called out on the catch, so the force out still applies. I believe the "4th out rule" would apply with the force out at second, and the run would not count.

The run counts. Once the batter is called out, the force at second is removed, and had there been less than two outs, R1 could have returned to first. QUOTE]

 

The batter was not called out on the catch, so the force out still applies. I believe the "4th out rule" would apply with the force out at second, and the run would not count.

 

It's my understanding, that once a trailing runner is retired, the runner ahead of him is no longer being "forced" to advance. So while, legally, the batter had obtained first base (meaning the runner ahead of him had to advance) once he was called out, first base was no longer occupied, and as long as the runner ahead hadn't legally reached second, he could either continue to advance to second or retreat to first, meaning he would have to be tagged in order to be retired. Thus the run should score.

The run counts. Once the batter is called out, the force at second is removed, and had there been less than two outs, R1 could have returned to first. This is really no different than a double play situation where a ball is hit to the first baseman and he tags first (retiring the batter) and on the resulting throw to second, the fielder must tag the runner as the force was removed when the batter was retired.

 

 

The batter was not called out on the catch, so the force out still applies. I believe the "4th out rule" would apply with the force out at second, and the run would not count.

 

It's my understanding, that once a trailing runner is retired, the runner ahead of him is no longer being "forced" to advance. So while, legally, the batter had obtained first base (meaning the runner ahead of him had to advance) once he was called out, first base was no longer occupied, and as long as the runner ahead hadn't legally reached second, he could either continue to advance to second or retreat to first, meaning he would have to be tagged in order to be retired. Thus the run should score.

 

1 out to start with.

2nd out is a force out at 3rd base.

3rd out is when the batter passes the runner who is returning to first base.

 

No "fourth out" option here.

 

Inning over.

 

Run counts.

I wouldn't say it is little known;-), I don't know anyone who's been around baseball for more than a minute who is not aware of that move. The purpose of the move is to get the runner on first moving so it's easier to pick him off/keep him close. Since the runner on third is rarely moving on the pitch, it's not a terribly useful move for a lefthander to even try. The genesis of the move was the rule that a pitcher cannot fake a throw to first while in contact with the rubber, but can fake throws to 2nd or 3rd. Of course MLB has outlawed righthanders from doing this move as of this year, so it's kind of a moot point. I'm not sure if that rule has filtered down to the High School level though.

We see the move done a ton, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was talking about is a lefthander is not allowed to fake to 1st and then turn to 3rd (which is the same as a righthander faking to 3rd and then looking at 1st.

 

Everyone knows they do it all the time looking at 3rd first.

We see the move done a ton, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was talking about is a lefthander is not allowed to fake to 1st and then turn to 3rd (which is the same as a righthander faking to 3rd and then looking at 1st.

 

Everyone knows they do it all the time looking at 3rd first.

 

I know and mentioned what you were talking about;-). You don't see it for two reasons....A) it's illegal to fake a throw to first from the mound while in contact with the rubber, and B)the reason righties do it is because you can fake a throw to third while in contact with the rubber, and the hope is the runner on first will be taking off on the pitch. The runner on third is almost never moving on the pitch, so why would a lefty think about faking a throw to first to catch the runner on third (besides the fact that it's illegal).. Again, the whole conversation is moot, because MLB has outlawed the fake to third-throw to first move for righthanders. I'm not sure if it's filtered down to high school, but it likely will at some point.

Here's one......happened in knothole but not going to say which district .......or even what state.........

 

BUT......... 0 balls and 2 strikes on the batter..........runner on third with 1 out...........

 

As P starts delivery, batter steps out of the box and the P stops his delivery..........batter doesn't ask for time from the UMP and none is given...........

 

I know, I know........you think BULK, runner on third scores......right?

 

Wrong, UMP calls time and tells the batter he caused it and calls strike 3, batter out........even though no pitch was thrown........a strike out on two pitches.....

 

A good chuckle was had by all..........too busy laughing to argue.....

Here's one......happened in knothole but not going to say which district .......or even what state.........

 

BUT......... 0 balls and 2 strikes on the batter..........runner on third with 1 out...........

 

As P starts delivery, batter steps out of the box and the P stops his delivery..........batter doesn't ask for time from the UMP and none is given...........

 

I know, I know........you think BULK, runner on third scores......right?

 

Wrong, UMP calls time and tells the batter he caused it and calls strike 3, batter out........even though no pitch was thrown........a strike out on two pitches.....

 

A good chuckle was had by all..........too busy laughing to argue.....

 

That could be the correct call. Depends on what version of OBR they are using.

 

MLB dictates it is a "do over."

National Association rules dictate it's a strike.

That could be the correct call. Depends on what version of OBR they are using.

 

MLB dictates it is a "do over."

National Association rules dictate it's a strike.

 

 

So if a player steps out and the P throws a strike, it is a do-over? Not sure I see that one.......what happened to the you have to be granted time out instead of just ask for it?

So if a player steps out and the P throws a strike, it is a do-over? Not sure I see that one.......what happened to the you have to be granted time out instead of just ask for it?

 

No. You said the pitcher didn't throw it. If the batter stepped out without being granted permission it is either nothing ie do-over OR it's a strike. Depends on which rulebook you are using.

 

Seems like NFHS(high school) has a rule that if the pitcher pitches it's a strike no matter where it actually is pitched. Maybe a high school ump can help with that one.

No. You said the pitcher didn't throw it. If the batter stepped out without being granted permission it is either nothing ie do-over OR it's a strike. Depends on which rulebook you are using.

 

Seems like NFHS(high school) has a rule that if the pitcher pitches it's a strike no matter where it actually is pitched. Maybe a high school ump can help with that one.

 

Not sure it's an automatic strike. It is what it is - be it a ball or strike. Of course, the reality is that upon illegally stepping out of the box, the strike zone just became much, much larger.