Multiple people witnessed the phone calls and texts from players trying to silence the rape victim? You don't need a jury to suspend or expel a player.

 

To quote the prosecutor:

 

"The investigation by NDSPD included the collection of evidence and the statements of event witnesses. This includes two statements from Ms. Seeberg, statements from the two suspects, and a statement from a female friend, all of whom were present during the evening of August 31, 2010. Only Ms. Seeberg and the student-athlete were present during the alleged battery. Conflicts exist among the witnesses' accounts of the events given to the police. Subpoenaed cell phone records are inconsistent with parts of the complaint itself.

 

Police also recovered the text messages of September 2, 2010 between Ms. Seeberg and the student who sent them. The content of the text messages sent does not rise to the level of a criminal act as defined by Indiana's Harassment statute. The student subjectively believed Ms. Seeberg's complaint was false and therefore he had a legitimate purpose for his text messages."

To quote the prosecutor:

 

"The investigation by NDSPD included the collection of evidence and the statements of event witnesses. This includes two statements from Ms. Seeberg, statements from the two suspects, and a statement from a female friend, all of whom were present during the evening of August 31, 2010. Only Ms. Seeberg and the student-athlete were present during the alleged battery. Conflicts exist among the witnesses' accounts of the events given to the police. Subpoenaed cell phone records are inconsistent with parts of the complaint itself.

 

Police also recovered the text messages of September 2, 2010 between Ms. Seeberg and the student who sent them. The content of the text messages sent does not rise to the level of a criminal act as defined by Indiana's Harassment statute. The student subjectively believed Ms. Seeberg's complaint was false and therefore he had a legitimate purpose for his text messages."

 

You aren't paying attention, there are TWO different victims. The football players contacted the girl that was actually raped not Ms. Seeberg.

Whether or not it's due to the in-action by campus police, the fact is there's nothing to substantiate an offense excepting an accusation by a girl that very sadly opted to take her own life before things finally moved forward. Regardless, I don't see how you can punish an athlete for something that there is literally no way of proving. Maybe the guy did do somthing wrong - yes. Still, maybe he didn't.

 

See "Duke lacrosse team" for proof on how these things can go wrong.

 

As for your "it wouldn't shock me" statement, how does the situation with the scissor lift blowing over in the wind have anything to do with Kelly's probability for covering up a rape? I'm not seeing the connection.

 

The guy is a despicable human being and will do anything to win, including sending a young man to his death and (if need be) covering up a rape. That's the connection.

The guy is a despicable human being and will do anything to win, including sending a young man to his death and (if need be) covering up a rape. That's the connection.

 

You have proof of that?

You have proof of that?

 

I don't need proof to express an opinion. If you actually read the thread, you'd see I said "it wouldn't shock me".

You aren't paying attention, there are TWO different victims. The football players contacted the girl that was actually raped not Ms. Seeberg.

 

I apologize, I was aware that there were two separate victims, but you're right, I was only (incorrectly) referencing the Seeberg situation. As to the rape situation, after reading through things this morning, I didn't see where any charges were brought against anyone in the first place. The article stated that the university said they would get the students who were texting the alleged rape victim to stop their texting. I didn't read anything about harassment charges being brought against them - and I would be in favor of the students sending texts to be brought up on harassment charges. However, I didn't see any mention of the results of the hospital's rape kit, or any investigation performed by police following the girl's visit to the hospital.

Knowing very little about this situation aside from what was reported in the two articles cited in this thread, a couple of things raised my concern that something is wrong at the institutional level: the claim made that the campus police (who have jurisdiction in investigating this matter) did not interview the alleged perpetrator for over a week after it was reported, and the claim that there was media/electronic evidence of Notre Dame students/athletes attempting to influence the alleged victim's behaviors after the incident. It is a sad fact that college students will continue to be the victims of sexual crimes, and it is unfair to hold the football program, the school or Coach Kelly directly accountable for the bad/illegal actions of some of the ND students/athletes. However, if what was reported about the delay in interviewing the alleged perpetrator and the presence of evidence of other students/athletes trying to deter a student from reporting a crime is correct, then those would be issues for which the school should be held to account.

The guy is a despicable human being and will do anything to win, including sending a young man to his death and (if need be) covering up a rape. That's the connection.

 

Sending a young man to his death? Seriously?

 

It was certainly a tragedy that this happened. However, allude to Kelly intentionally "sending a young man to his death" is absolutely crazy. Do I think Kelly should have sent the Declan Sullivan up in the scissor lift? No. Did Kelly know how bad the wind conditions were going to get? Probably not. Did Kelly know what the constraints of the scissor lift were in windy conditions? Probably not. Did Declan Sullivan know either of those things? Probably not. Would Kelly have sent Sullivan up in the lift to film practice if he had any clue that the lift would have blown over? There's no way you could convince me he would have.

 

First off, although I'm not sure, I don't imagine Sullivan was taking marching orders directly from Brian Kelly - although I still wouldn't doubt that Kelly fully intended to have his camera crews filming practice. However, secondly (and more importantly), Declan Sullivan was 20 years old. He was an adult, and was perfectly capable to voice his opinion as to how prudent it would be for him to be up on the scissor lift. He also clearly had a choice to refuse to go up there. He was an adult, and the coaching staff's desires aside, he HAD the ability to make a decision to impact the outcome of the tragedy.

I apologize, I was aware that there were two separate victims, but you're right, I was only (incorrectly) referencing the Seeberg situation. As to the rape situation, after reading through things this morning, I didn't see where any charges were brought against anyone in the first place. The article stated that the university said they would get the students who were texting the alleged rape victim to stop their texting. I didn't read anything about harassment charges being brought against them - and I would be in favor of the students sending texts to be brought up on harassment charges. However, I didn't see any mention of the results of the hospital's rape kit, or any investigation performed by police following the girl's visit to the hospital.

 

Rape kit won't ever be finished after she was intimidated and dropped the pursuit they won't ever compare it to samples of the perp or anything more.

First, I hate that people wait until a pivotal moment to raise a stink. This woman should have written this scathing article in March, when the second accusation came out. This author was out more for her career. If she truly cared about the victim, then she would have been at the forefront of this. NOT right before a National Championship game. The author should be ashamed. She had access to the Washington Post then, she should have used it. If she did, and the Washington Post is just now running w/ it, shame on them.

 

If ND did cover up the rape, or the intimidation of the victim, then it should not only be ashamed. It deserves the bad press. However, that first allegation was not covered up. Everything came out at the time of her suicide, which coincided w/ the investigation, unfortunately.

 

As for the rape, what is Kelly supposed to do if the rape is never reported? That's an awful position for a coach as well. I don't know what did or did not happen. I do know that even at a small school like Hanover, we had 2 teammates that were falsely accused, and even though the truth came out, their reputation as men was smeared forever. As a result, I don't instinctively jump to the woman's side. I do, however, not blame victims. I wish that she would have reported it.

Rape kit won't ever be finished after she was intimidated and dropped the pursuit they won't ever compare it to samples of the perp or anything more.

 

Well that is certainly unfortunate. And yes, I believe Notre Dame needed to conduct some kind of investigation. Again, I didn't see in the article where they referenced anything about an investigation one way or another, though.

 

If ND did cover up the rape, or the intimidation of the victim, then it should not only be ashamed. It deserves the bad press. However, that first allegation was not covered up. Everything came out at the time of her suicide, which coincided w/ the investigation, unfortunately.

 

I would have sworn this came out even on here a couple years ago.

The fact that this is brought up in light of ND's success on the field is sort of pathetic. I know i will get heat for that from the haters, but that is just my opinion.

The fact that this is brought up in light of ND's success on the field is sort of pathetic. I know i will get heat for that from the haters, but that is just my opinion.

 

Agreed. It should be kept hush-hush. How dare anyone shed non-flattering light on those upstanding citizens in South Bend. :lol:

Agreed. It should be kept hush-hush. How dare anyone shed non-flattering light on those upstanding citizens in South Bend. :lol:

 

Not my point. My point is that this story has been known for a while. It's clear from reading the posts, articles covering this that no one can say for sure what happened, who knew what, etc.

 

If what this person's article claims is in fact true then yes, disgusted by the way the university handled this. Not at all what ND stands for. But we don't know, the prosecutor didn't know, so let's move on...