That doesn't mean we'll agree on what we believe happened that cold, rainy night in February. Unless someone can show me some hardcore video proof that exonerates Zimmerman I am going to believe he is guilty as sin. Just like a large majority of people believe OJ killed Nichole and Ron even though the evidence was enough for a jury to acquit him.

 

Do you always feel this way? That the defense should have to prove someone's innocence?

Do you always feel this way? That the defense should have to prove someone's innocence?

 

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Depends on the situation. Is it right of me to do so? No of course not. It should be innocent until proven guilty. I am human though. I judge when I shouldn't sometimes. I presume guilt before innocence sometimes. I am doing so in this case. I'll readily admit that as well as all of my other flaws. As a human I reserve the right to change my mind at the drop of the hat. If Zimmerman's defense can prove to me that he was standing his ground and that it was self defense against a weaponless teenager then I'll happily admit I was wrong. I don't want to see an innocent man locked up. I just don't think he is innocent and I am not on the jury nor will I be selected for the jury so all my thoughts about this case is just fodder for BGP anyways. His future won't be determined by me. My only hope is that if he is found innocent that there is a lot of proof to clear him. I don't want to see a repeat of the Rodney King riots.

I'm working, so can't read all the previous responses, but here are my thoughts:

 

1) I never thought he should be charged with murder. Given even the wackadoo recounting of the circumstances of the evening, I can't see it being murder. I honestly thought he'd be charged with manslaughter, which is more fitting, in my opinion.

 

2) I will go back and restate my earlier post: If it is possible, if I were Mr. Zimmerman, I'd waive my right to a jury trial and ask for a bench ruling. I see absolutely no way to cull an untainted jury, especially in the state of Florida. This has been an extraordinarily polarizing event, and given the laws in play (Stand your ground), and the now racially charged accusations, I don't feel his chances of an impartial jury are that great.

 

3) As I don't believe Mr. Zimmerman intended to murder Mr. Martin. Unlike many, as more information has become available, I've actually relaxed my view that pulling a gun on an unarmed teenager is 100% completely out of line in this case. I do not doubt that Mr. Martin was not armed, nor do I feel that he was at fault or "caused" this in any way. HOWEVER, given the weather, the fact that it was dark, the fact that Mr. Martin was not a little boy, but a pretty decent sized young man, I believe Mr. Zimmerman in that he didn't realize he was dealing with an unarmed teenager.

 

4) In the end, I've come to the conclusion that this is a terrible, terrible tragedy. It's impact has torn apart more than just Mr. Martin's family, but has torn apart the Zimmerman family as well. And the community.

 

5) I do still stand by my assertion that I feel the police could have initially handled this much better. Even if he weren't jailed at the time of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman shouldn't have been "let off the hook" that easily in the beginning. I still don't think there would have been criminal charges filed. But I do feel that they should be cautious in the investigation of ANY shooting, especially those resulting in death. It brings to mind (to me) the case here in Louisville that involved the UL baseball player who shot a former UL football in downtown Louisville. The shooter was questioned and released. Whether he mean to kill the football player or not, the event happened in the middle of the night, and by the morning news (5 am), he was home.

85, I'd be careful about accusing people of being racist. That's a charge that should ONLY be levied when you have 128% proof.

I'd also be careful about challenging LN with "you believe everything Zimmerman told the police" was factual. He hasn't claimed that. If we simply go by what we read/hear/think we'd never need the jury system. You then compound it by throwing in your interpretation of what the real facts are and presenting them as the only truth. We don't know the real facts.

 

We need your perspective but you can't get a thread off track with accusations and with not responding to what was truly said.

 

First and foremost I meant no malice. Poorly typed.

 

1st bold= In my locale, black clergymen are often referred to as "Rhyming Revs" in a very racist manner. It is a pseudo racial slur, much like the term thug. I kid you not. I'm sure someone will attack that statement, not knowing the political climate of my town.

 

2nd bold = I didn't inlcude the question mark. I was asking him was he believing everything...

 

Incorrect on many levels.

 

First as I have stated many, many times, I have not made a conclusion whether Zimmerman did or did not murder Martin. My comments have focused strictly on whether the little evidence we actually know of is sufficient to convict Zimmerman of murder. I don't think there is, but as I have pointed out the special prosecutor may have discovered additional evidence.

 

If you care to read my prior posts, I actually stated that I hope the special has additional evidence and that Zimmerman is convicted. That sound like supporting a murderer, to you?

 

I do not discount the possibility that Zimmerman may have/could have been setting the scene. But there is going to have to be some solid, believable evidence supporting that theory.

 

I have not supported Zimmerman one dang bit. My comments have been focused on the charge and whether the information known is sufficient to convict.

 

However, there are plenty of people out there (you included) commenting on the case with no more knowledge than I, that have already convicted Zimmerman in their minds.

 

I do put stock in what the special prosecutor feels about the evidence; just like I put stock in what the initial prosecutor felt about the evidence. I do not put much stock in what the detective felt. No disrespect to police officers, but it's not their job to determine if there is evidence to charge. They aren't lawyers; they are police officers.

 

And if I may respond to a comment you made to me in a prior post: no you don't "grind my gears". If you are trying to do so, it's not working. I do find your perspective and opinion on this matter troubling and disappointing, but does it grind my gears? Again, no. I really don't value your opinion high enough to let our difference of opinion bother me.

Why is it troubling? I am not a prospective juror. I can see this situation in my head, because it almost happened to me and a friend. Historically speaking, not charging Zimmerman was a new school Emmitt Till moment.

You are right, it is not the job of the detective to determine what charges to file; but it is their jobs to collect evidence and present what laws the suspect broke to the prosecutor based on the evidence. Detectives are not simple beat cops. They know the law, and work closely with the prosecutor on how to enforce the law. They usually work together and very well. For a prosecutor to ignore the murder of an unarmed teenager like that is ridiculous. Hindsight being 20/20, they didn't know how old Trayvon was at the morgue either. The dad was told he was a John Doe at the morgue, after dad filed a missing person's report the next day. Cops show up to dad's house, and dad described him, and told dad Trayvon was a John John Doe at the morgue. This is dad's recollection of the event. Go read this story from The Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/trayvon-before-the-media_n_1400485.html

By the time dad is notified, the prosecutor already said no charges were worth filing, because there isn't enough to get a conviction. For a detective to ask for a manslaughter charge, on a John Doe (black John Doe at that), simply restates Zimmerman's story is full of holes and doesn't add up or make sense or something. Scientific reasoning and deduction allow me to have this line of thinking, along with a sprinkling of historical perspective. I'd like to think Trayvon beat Zimmerman's arse in a scuffle; but heck, Zimmerman could have pistol whipped himself after being in such disgust after shooting a man. Intentionally, or not intentionally causing damage to himself. Who hasn't tapped the top of their head in disbelief at their own actions.

Another thing, the toxicology on Trayvon has to be done, and the special prosectuor knows the results. If Trayvon was high on weed, and she still decided to charge him, tells us something about Zimmerman's story again. If he was not high, shows Zimmerman was setting his scene, and there are still holes in his story. Not to mention, there was no toxicology done on this man after a shooting. Like they just took his word and said, "It's all good, playa." This is preposterous and no way is it justice. What some may call "justice", others call "just us".

But the fact remains that 2 out of 3 law enforcement officials intimately familiar with the case decided it was necessary to charge Zimmerman. The one whom didn't, quit his job. Probably because any coverups are about to be exposed - or he realized this was no simpleton, colored burgular. This was an unarmed, pedestrian high school student. He quit because at best, he knew he mucked this one up. At worst, the roof will come off the cover, soon.

I'm working, so can't read all the previous responses, but here are my thoughts:

 

1) I never thought he should be charged with murder. Given even the wackadoo recounting of the circumstances of the evening, I can't see it being murder. I honestly thought he'd be charged with manslaughter, which is more fitting, in my opinion.

 

2) I will go back and restate my earlier post: If it is possible, if I were Mr. Zimmerman, I'd waive my right to a jury trial and ask for a bench ruling. I see absolutely no way to cull an untainted jury, especially in the state of Florida. This has been an extraordinarily polarizing event, and given the laws in play (Stand your ground), and the now racially charged accusations, I don't feel his chances of an impartial jury are that great.

 

3) As I don't believe Mr. Zimmerman intended to murder Mr. Martin. Unlike many, as more information has become available, I've actually relaxed my view that pulling a gun on an unarmed teenager is 100% completely out of line in this case. I do not doubt that Mr. Martin was not armed, nor do I feel that he was at fault or "caused" this in any way. HOWEVER, given the weather, the fact that it was dark, the fact that Mr. Martin was not a little boy, but a pretty decent sized young man, I believe Mr. Zimmerman in that he didn't realize he was dealing with an unarmed teenager.

4) In the end, I've come to the conclusion that this is a terrible, terrible tragedy. It's impact has torn apart more than just Mr. Martin's family, but has torn apart the Zimmerman family as well. And the community.

 

5) I do still stand by my assertion that I feel the police could have initially handled this much better. Even if he weren't jailed at the time of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman shouldn't have been "let off the hook" that easily in the beginning. I still don't think there would have been criminal charges filed. But I do feel that they should be cautious in the investigation of ANY shooting, especially those resulting in death. It brings to mind (to me) the case here in Louisville that involved the UL baseball player who shot a former UL football in downtown Louisville. The shooter was questioned and released. Whether he mean to kill the football player or not, the event happened in the middle of the night, and by the morning news (5 am), he was home.

 

Goes back to what I continue to say, Zimmerman guessed wrong. Now he needs to pay for his poor guess work.

Man, with all the different opinions and apparent lack of eye witnesses, I could see a split decision ala OJ where Zimmerman is acquitted on the criminal charges and loses the wrongful death civil case.

Martin lawyers are seeking to get Zimmerman's bond revoked. They say he has 204,000 in the bank and that his bond should be higher.

 

 

Martin attorney: Zimmerman misled court about money - CNN.com

Martin lawyers are seeking to get Zimmerman's bond revoked. They say he has 204,000 in the bank and that his bond should be higher.

 

 

Martin attorney: Zimmerman misled court about money - CNN.com

 

Sounds like an honest upstanding guy, this here Zimmerman fellow. :lol:

Reuters had an interesting article on Zimmerman which is more in depth than I've seen.

 

 

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting | Reuters

Sounds like an honest upstanding guy, this here Zimmerman fellow. :lol:

 

This. The man doesn't disclose funds to his lawyer. As if it wouldn't come to light. Now he is proving himself to be untrustworthy, which is why you can't believe anything the man says in the first place, according to one detective who wanted to charge him. And the fact remains that 2 of 3 law enforcement officials wanted a charge and the one that didn't quit his job.

Reuters had an interesting article on Zimmerman which is more in depth than I've seen.

 

 

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting | Reuters

Interesting article. Kind of damaging for Zimmerman. Now he has to explain why he felt it necessary to chase Trayvon. The other guy walks away, and Zimmerman has a national audience that heard him say "these (bad people) they always get away."

After this and the money story, how many excuses are people going to defend him? It's funny how thw prelude story uses a subhead of setting his scene which is what I have said all along.

After reading this, I feel he should be charged with murder now.

Interesting article. Kind of damaging for Zimmerman. Now he has to explain why he felt it necessary to chase Trayvon. The other guy walks away, and Zimmerman has a national audience that heard him say "these (bad people) they always get away."

After this and the money story, how many excuses are people going to defend him? It's funny how thw prelude story uses a subhead of setting his scene which is what I have said all along.

After reading this, I feel he should be charged with murder now.

 

I think there is also a lot in there that will help Zimmerman as there seems to be an indication that he's not a racist like some have painted him. Hopefully there is enough actual evidence in the way of eyewitnesses that there will be no doubt about the verdict no matter which way it goes. I doubt if that will happen though.

I think there is also a lot in there that will help Zimmerman as there seems to be an indication that he's not a racist like some have painted him. Hopefully there is enough actual evidence in the way of eyewitnesses that there will be no doubt about the verdict no matter which way it goes. I doubt if that will happen though.

 

People have been past the Zimmerman and Bull Connor comparisons

People have been past the Zimmerman and Bull Connor comparisons

 

I'm not following you?