Park1221

This article is from the USA Today from 2006 and it seems to indicate that the only states at that time were FL and CA.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/2006-11-21-transfers-cover_x.htm

Florida and California...maybe Kentucky will relax its transfer rules in 20 years. That's why Twain wanted to be in Kentucky when the end of the world comes-- everything happens 20 years later here.

Even without the smoking gun text the young man would not be eligible. I think there was a case from WKY back in the 70s where a kid whose parents were already separated (key point) moved from one to the other. I believe the case went to the KY Supreme Court which backed up the KHSAA.

Each case is fact specific...the key being whether the "change of residence" was legitimate or done primarily for athletic reasons. Kids from split families often move from one parent to the other as they get older and it has nothing to do with athletics. The KHSAA now gets to play God and decide what someone's true intentions were and possibly ruin a kid's senior year. Again I say, do away with all this nonsense of making families and kids "move" in order to fall within the exception to the rule and just amend the rule and let all kids transfer one time without any penalty. Now if the receiving school was found to have "recruited" the kid then punish the school...not the kid.

He played about a quarter last night

Thanks...just hadn't seen his name in the boxscores lately.

Is James Quick injured?

Trinity has a loaded frosh class this year. James Quick will be very active I gurantee in this scrimmage.

I haven't seen Quick's name in the basketball boxscores lately, is he hurt?

I know the Rocks were down a bit last yr. Was this because they were young? That could be bad for Highlands if last yr was a rebuilding yr. 20n10

My prediction is that this will be quite a challenge for the Birds.

Zane Karrer was being looked at by WKU and Purdue but I do not believe either made an offer.

X has no answer for Sewell. Rocks by many.

Poorest officiating I have seen this year.

 

Potential trap game for Trinity that they survived. Bring on the Tigers and Freedom Hall.

Will Frosh and JV play before varsity? Start times?

This was a nice win for Mercy. I find the FT stats for Manual interesting. CAL visited Mercy three nights earlier and won in the closing seconds, but suffered some of the same troubles from the charity stripe, making only 14 of 29, well below their season percentage.

 

Following the game, one of the coaches noted that (in his opinion) the Nike basketball used was a tad lighter weight than the normal (Spalding/Rawlings?) ball. Although it may sound odd, this could help account for the many free throws that clanged off the back of the rim and uncontested three-pointers from the side that sailed over the rim much more often than usual, especially from proficient long-range shooters.

 

Of course, both teams played with the same ball, so no claims of unfairness here, but both also shot poorly. Some of it may be due to defense, but it does make you wonder.

I hope someone from Mercy can put this ("lighter ball" allegation) to rest. You'd think one of several coaches or officials from the CAL or Manual games would have noticed this during the game....and made some complaint during the game IF there was an issue with the ball.

Again we do not know. However, if Hammond’s testimony was the only testimony stating that the transfer was athletically motivated, then without it there was no evidence. I have also heard that if the original school “objects” to the transfer, then the KHSAA will automatically find the athlete ineligible. That doesn’t explain (and I have no clue) why the hearing officer upheld the ruling.

 

For the record, I have no blinders on and if you asked me if I think did sports play a role in the kid’s transfer I would say “definitely I believe it”. However, me believing the kid transferred due to sports and being able to say with any certainty that is the case are different.

The legal burden of proof is not "certainty" nor is it "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" (that's criminal law). Pursuant to KRS 13B.090 the KHSAA only has to prove by a "preponderance" of the evidence that the move was not bona fide. Generally, the coach at the sending school is never a critical witness in these matters because he/she doesn't have knowledge of why a former student's family decided to move. (Usually the player/family is savy enough not to tell former coach, "we're moving so I can play ball for another school next year.") In my opinion, the KHSAA "quick kicked" on this one as they found a way out after being threatened with legal action. Those with the resources to fight the KHSAA tend to prevail, those that don't have the resources to get lawyered up don't fair as well.

We don’t know why he was ruled ineligible initially or why the hearing officer upheld the ineligibility other than to say that Hammond’s testimony was part of it (dare I say a big part of it), because after they read the emails, they no longer thought his word was credible.

 

We also don’t know why he transferred and probably the KHSAA doesn’t either. However, by their ruling they are saying that the reasons Hammond were giving for their transfer can’t be believed.

 

 

 

You can believe that this is a smoking gun if you want, but I am telling you that it is just speculation. My guess if you talk to the family they can give a handful of other factors that were key in their transferring their child to Lexington Catholic that don’t involve athletics. Bottom line, we don't know all of the reasons given why he transferred and ultimately we do no know why he transferred.

 

 

 

To my knowledge, the KHSAA rules do not specify the distance required to achieve a bona-fide change of residence. Only that a bona-fide change of residence must occur. Also neither the KHSAA or the Hurt family, cares if Park1221 thinks that “dog will hunt”.

 

Pretty much your entire argument is based on your opinion, thankfully there has to be real evidence of motivation. You discount their move because it doesn’t fit with your theory, but the dad supposedly having an argument with a coach or playing summer ball for the Lexington Catholic coach is elevated to carry more weight because it supports your theory. My guess, and it is just a guess, is there are probably many other factors besides these three (3). We just don’t know enough facts to argue whether the transfer was legit or not. However, as Clyde said, what we do know is:

 

-The coach was not very smart.

-The coach exercised a serious lack of maturity.

How could Hammond's testimony been critical on whether the move was "bona fide"? Unless he was their real estate agent I doubt the Hurt family shared much information with Hammond about why they were moving. I'm truly glad the young man is allowed to play but keep those blinders on if you want to believe the family moved because all of the sudden they wanted a Catholic Education. Apparently the boy's grandfather dedicated his life's work to serving the Fayette County public school system so it seems a little odd that now the the family believes in Catholic Education. If it was for academics, why didn't he transfer in to to Sayre? Bottom line, for those close to the KBC program it was common knowledge there was a baseball problem between Hammond and the family and the kid was probably going to transfer to Lex Cath because of that and he did. My point in all of this is that the transfer rule is ridiculous because it is nearly impossible to enforce unless someone is dumb enough and honest enough to say, "Yeah, sports was a big factor in our moving and tranfering to another school." Since that kind of testimony usually never exists the KHSAA is left with looking at circumstantial evidence such as job change, change in financial circumstances, change in family size all of which may have justified the move. If those facts didn't exist(they didn't) then they have to look at whether the student was happy with his playing time, happy with his coach(he wasn't), whether the school accepting him wants him to play baseball(they do!), whether there was any athletic connection between the student and accepting school (there was, Clary coached his summer team).

What all of this illustrates is the need for the KHSAA to abolish the transfer rule and let kids transfer once without penalty.

No that the KHSAA is blameless in this situation, but they weren't responsible for the coach's termination, his school was. Which is all the more curious - certainly the school officials would have a clear and detailed history of the man's background and totality of his coaching/teaching career. Unless there were previous transgressions or something a bit more serious not disclosed relative to this situation, it sure seems a tough punishment. Makes one wonder why a suspension of some sort would not have been sufficient.

I agree the KHSAA wasn't responsible for Hammond's termination...the term "scapegoat" refers to the KHSAA's stated reason for reversing their ruling on the kid's eligibility--Hammond. Again, I'm glad the kid is eligible because I hate the transfer rule to begin with. Allow all kids to transfer once without any questions being asked and quit making families go through these bogus "moves across town".

I will ask the same question of you. Did you take the time to read the article?

 

The ineligible ruling and the hearing officer upholding the ruling were based at lease in part on Hammonds testimony. In the article it states that, "evidence of the e-mails casts doubt on the credibility" of Hammond's testimony "and calls into question whether or not the original objection of Henry Clay was a valid objection."

 

To draw any conclusions about why the Hurt's chose to move their son is purely speculation. unless you are the family or the family has communicated to you about their motivation. You also forgot to mention that the article states that Hurt's moved "across town", did this play a part too? Who knows? It would be just as much speculation saying this was the reason as saying it was because the kid was a good baseball player.

 

One this for certain there is nothing to make me believe that Hammond had anyone's best interest at heart other than his own. However, he lost his job for breaking the rules.

#1--Please tell me how Hammond's emails after the kid transferreed and after he was ruled ineligible had anything to do with the reason why this kid tranferred to begin with?

#2--Suppose the emails demonstrate Hammond is a cheating, good for nothing coach....so what?? The KHSAA rules don't allow for transfers because you're coach is a bad guy. Hammond's credibility wasn't the issue. The issue was whether the move was a "bona fide" change of residence and as you say Hammond's testimony or opinion on that would largely be irrelevant as speculation. What's not speculation is that the kid's Dad had a disagreement over summer ball with Hammond, played summer ball for Lex's Cath coach and then "moved" and then transferred to Lex Cath.

#3--"moved across town"....I lived in Lexington for 4 years and unless they've recently annexed Bourbon County you can pretty much travel by car and get anywhere in 20 minutes in Fayette County so that dog won't hunt.

Hotshot, what are you talking about? Did you take the time to read the article? The KHSAA ruled him ineligible after investigating the matter. Then a hearing was held before a hearing officer and the ruling was upheld. You think they did that based on "no evidence"? Do you really think this kid's parents all of the sudden decided their son needed a Catholic education? I guess it's just a coincidence that the kid is pretty good in baseball and the Catholic school he transferred to is the defending state champion in baseball. And the fact that the kid played on a summer team coached by none other than Lex Cath's head coach had absolutely nothing to do with his decision to switch schools. Sounds like there was mountain of evidence to support the initial ruling and what Hammond said or did after the fact should have had no bearing in the matter.

For the record, I'm glad the kid is allowed to play. The sit out penalty for transferring is not fairly or uniformly enforced and should be abolished in my opinion. The KHSAA used Hammond as a scapegoat because they still have no clue how to enforce the transfer rule. Unfortunately, this cost a good coach his job. The sad thing is that I think both Hammond, Clary and KBC have the best interest of kids at heart but the desire to win I think clouded better judgment on both sides. Since the kid actually went ahead and transferred Hammond should have just let it go, filed no objection and wished his former player well. Sad that this cost him his job.

Interesting. Why would the coach's attempt to work out some resolution or have the kid return to HC, cause the KHSAA to "call into question whether or not the original objection of Henry Clay was a valid objection." Didn't see anything said by the father to refute the claim that they moved specifically to find their son a new school for whom to play. On the surface at least, it sounds like KHSAA simply wanted to stay out of a messy situation.

You're exactly right...KHSAA saw a way to back off and they did, as usual.

Markel Carter for PRP did it a couple of weeks ago...I know he had steals and points as part of his triple(not sure if his other double was rebounds or assists).

It is not necessary to have seen Ryan Mossakowski play against SEC competition to be able to compare his quarterback skill set to Morgan Newton's. Trust me on this one. What I am saying is not just an opinion. If you saw any practice and watch the two go through drills, many of the conclusions are obvious.

That's fine, and you may be 100% correct...but looking good in spring drills doesn't always translate to the same poise, good reads and accuracy when confronted with a SEC caliber defense. That being said, I didn't think Newton was very accurate even when he wasn't pressured so it wouldn't surprise me if Moss has him beat in that category.

One pitcher could pitch 20 of 21 innings in the tourney.

I really hate this format.

Based on pure fact!

What would be the source of your "facts"? I didn't get a chance to see Moss play against SEC competiton.

I'm pretty sure he never played RB, and if he did it was sparingly. His senior year, he was QB, before that a WR. He also played LB, SS, KR/PR as well, I don't remember any RB play.

Michael Bush played RB almost exclusively his Jr. year.

I don't think U of L is going to be a quick fix though. It wouldn't shock me for them to win 7 or 8 games but I could also see them only winning 3 or 4 too. By year 3 I think U of L will be a major player in the Big East but it's going to take a little bit of time IMO.

 

QB is a major concern for U of L IMO, especially for that type of offense.

 

Also I wonder if U of L is ready to play an SEC style of defense. I don't see it and it's going to take some time.

 

Strong is the right man for the job, I just don't want to see crazy expectations and all of that. I want Charlie to be successful and for U of L to become the Big Dog in the Big East. JMO.

I agree...next year will be rough for the Cards. I don't think the Cards will go Bowling again until year 2.

Rocks looking "solid"(I know, pretty original).

Drove past Ryle's baseball field last week, it looked really good. Looks like they laid some sod down and brought in extra dirt and gravel. Well manicured and looks like someone is taking care of it better in the off season.

 

I think top 5 teams in 9th region will be.

Boone

Ryle

Cov. Cath

Dixie

Newport C.C.

Did Beechwood loose a lot to graduation?

Great job Highlands!