Bluegrasscard

I think this deals with the "two-weeks before symptoms" theory. That theory seemed to lack backing in the real world. I posted a NYC doctor here that said symptoms appear in days of exposure - like other viruses. So, the mass masks assume a good portion of the population is actively sick and contagious and spreaders. But nothing supports that assumption.

The answer is obvious. But the mask is not going to protect either, as we have all been told. The mask to prevent spread from the individual wearing it, right? To stop any chance of transmission via air the spacesuit approach is needed. Masks are worn by doctors and nurses in surgery to protect the patient, not the themselves. I think there will be some spill over from this event to better protecting medical workers and that will be good. I had no issue with PPE being redirected to the medical workers at all.

I think the mask is a non-factor mostly. Let's work with the 'the mask is for others, not you' scenario. And let's work it from two angles - a worker and customer. Customer wearing mask scenerio Mask may inhibit sneezing into someones face (but most people do not do that anyway). It may slow the 'breath' aspect. But the real kicker is the studies and evidence is that casual public interaction (note - this would NOT apply to a metro subway system!) is not a major conduit. So it may help - but not much and not enough to make it a policy. Worker wearing mask scenario A stationary worker, i.e. cashier, is going to contaminate their area if they are really sick and contagious. Its just going to happen, regardless of the plexiglass "barrier", regardless of wiping things down, etc. The area, the surfaces will all become contaminated and be a possible transport after the worker is there for a period of time. The mask merely slows that inevitable process and probably not by much. Thus, I find mask a non-factor in feeling safe. We are all breathing the air and exhaling it. The air is not being collected and sanitized before it is put back into the environment. Wearing masks in outdoor settings is down-right silly in my view. But indoors, an infected, contagious individual will be a problem - mask or no mask. What I do do as a habit now is to take 2 or 3 wipes (kept in car) in everywhere. Wipe down the handles of carts and wipe hands periodically while in a store or grocery. And at the end I wipe off the scanning register and the key pad and the hand held scanner and the screen. Since the entry into the body is usually hands to face I feel this is providing some level protection. I also wipe the steering wheel during and after driving and try to remember to wash hands immediately after coming home. I also have beefed up vitamin-C intake and take multi-vitamins more regularly than before. Some new postings this week tie things to Vitamin D. But as long as we are out in the sun we all should get enough D without supplements, though some people swear by Vitamin D3 as a magic thing. The goodness of a solid immune system is something that seems to have gotten lost in this whole event.

I am just trying to relay how I see the current attitudes, at least on the 'mask thing'. Let me give a cut here. Understanding of the virus changes The fundemental properties of the virus and its spread were fairly well established early on. It corona virus that has the receptor for ACE-2 cells making it easy to spread. Its small - so even n-95 do not protect you from inhaling it where aerosolized. So the understanding of the mechanics has not really changed. Medical people needing masks We all remember that. We were told - you do not need masks - period. Save them for the front line because they are worthless to you - the common person. Thus, either they were lying to us then, or they are lying to us now and it seems they are willing to lie whenever it suits a situation. So the only known thing is - lies were told to the masses. This is what people now see. It is what has them frustrated with all the authoritative figure heads. If people and workers want to were a mask for any reason - sure. But they really only have any possibility of doing something if you assume the wearer is sick and contagious. So the mass masks requirement is helpful only if something that is known not to be the case is assumed to be the case - that there are thousands of sick and contagious people out in public.

We were told over and over and over in February and early March it was not needed. Now, its magically needed on May 11th. Feb 29th, Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/02/29/despite-covid-19-coronavirus-here-is-why-you-should-stop-buying-face-masks/#7159c4502ab8 Keep in mind that buying most face masks out there can be like purchasing a scented trash bag: a huge waste of money. Many available masks are going to do diddly squat for you. Feb 27th: Doctors debunk masks as protection against coronavirus | KOMO “For the general population, masks are not where we should focus our prevention efforts,” said Dr. Santiago Neme, an infectious diseases expert at UW Medicine. Feb 28th, The Hill: Coronavirus is causing a worldwide panic about face masks. Should you join in? | TheHill The irony is that surgical masks will do little, if anything, to protect you from coronavirus. They are designed to prevent the spread of germs and viruses by the wearer to people nearby,... ... Health experts say masking large segments of the world’s populations is neither possible nor necessary. The best defense against infection is to stay away from parts of the world where the virus has hit epidemic levels and people who have travelled to those areas. Otherwise, basic hygiene protects against infection by all sorts of pathogens, including the flu and common colds. March 4th Chicago Daily Herald: DON'T buy face masks unless you have COVID-19! What you should really buy and do Reports of local cases of COVID-19 illness, which is caused by the coronavirus, have led people to stockpile everything from hand sanitizer to face masks, leading U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams to beg Saturday on Twitter, "Seriously people -- STOP BUYING MASKS!" "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if health care providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!" Adams continued. The CDC "does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19." March 1, Sacramento Bee: https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240780786.html “The average healthy person does not need to have a mask, and they shouldn’t be wearing masks,” says Dr. Eli Perencevich, a professor of medicine and epidemiology at the University of Iowa’s College of Medicine, according to Forbes. “There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them,” Perencevich said, the publication reported. “They wear them incorrectly, and they can increase the risk of infection because they’re touching their face more often.” Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240780786.html#storylink=cpy This article shows that different guidance was given in April though its still notes - WHO says healthy people do not need masks: Update (April 5): The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has now recommended that people wear face masks in public, McClatchy News reports. Health officials say it’s not because surgical masks are any more effective at protecting people from viruses — they’re not — but because wearing masks could help prevent infectious people who are asymptomatic from unintentionally spreading the COVID-19 virus. The World Health Organization has not changed its position, which says marks (sic) are not needed in public for those who don’t already have coronavirus. Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240780786.html#storylink=cpy So are mask good or needed? Or are they not? The experts at invididual and worldwide organizational levels can not agree. So why should we be pressured into something that is not accepted by the "highest" ranking health organization - WHO. After all - its their declared pandemic. Most people seem just over the whole issue at this point. And they should be. The curve was flattened and killed. Now it seems the goal post has moved and people are more and more angry every day because of that. Personally, I would like to see the restrictions on support persons for hospital patients lifted as a specific action. That specific restriction has far out lived any potential usefulness.

Was at Lowes tonight. Most employees and customers were without masks - I would say 9/10s were without masks. Store seemed almost "normal" in operation. The middle-aged woman that check me out and I joked about not being able hear each other due to the plexiglass "barrier". She then offered that on Monday they will have mandatory masks and she did not want that. Most forget - early on we all told by multiple sources that masks were explicitly not needed. Now they are? Its this bait-and switch messaging that has a lot people frustrated and now tuning out most of the podium talkers at any level.

Thank you. She is under 30. Loves NYC. Is in the fashion industry though they have been shutdown for last two months.

DIL sister is positive. Lives in NYC. Couple days in on steroid prescription and inhaler.

Got the call that elective heart procedure can be scheduled. Conditions - COVID test needed. They assume it can be be during prep-testing. - No family in hospital. i.e. they are to drop you off and leave and come back next day and pick-up.

Now that people are making home-made mask out of all sorts of materials there POTENTIAL issues - especially to those in 'at risk' status and I would say workers to are working hard and trying to follow guidelines/rules/etc. If people are going to do this they should have some information on materials, etc. Here is a link. The Ultimate Guide to Homemade Face Masks for Coronavirus - Smart Air Filters My mother is making sewn homemade masks for others. Personally, I have some workmans dust mask and even a replaceable filter respirator for working in an attic with cellulose insulation.

So he has never seen employees doing hard work in a store with their mask pulled down - so they can get the O2 needed when lifting heavy items? They are definitely constricting to someone who is doing hard work. And constricted breathing can trigger heart-related ailments. I know this from unfortunate condition and experience. The cleanliness aspect seems self evidence. Like a CPAP, reusable masks will need cleaning daily or so. Link with more information - based respirators that should have better performance than homemade masks. Respirator masks protect health but impact performance: a review From link: There are two basic principles relevant to respirator use: Work cannot usually be performed as long or as hard while wearing a respirator compared to when respirators are not worn. Wearing protective clothing plus respirators makes this situation even worse. Either more time must be allowed for a particular task or more workers must be assigned to the same task. There is a great deal of wearer variability. Some wearers can tolerate respirator high inspiratory or expiratory resistance or pressure levels, while others cannot. Some wearers are much more anxious about wearing respirators than others. Some wearers can tolerate hot, humid conditions inside respirators, whereas others cannot. Because of this variability, each wearer must be treated as an individual.

Be careful with masks. No good choices: A mask may block out some pollution but have other ill health effects While ill-fitting masks let in pollutants, mask that fit too tightly can also be problematic. A person wearing any kind of mask faces breathing resistance as air filters through the device, making the wearer work harder to inhale than he would without the mask. This can have several adverse physiological effects when the mask is worn for long periods of time. Moreover, carbon dioxide that is exhaled can get trapped in the chamber of the mask the re-enter the body each time the mask user inhales. This delivers less oxygen into the body than when the person is not wearing a mask. “It can lead to oxygen shortage, suffocation, respiration trouble, and heart attacks,” said Dr D Saha, scientist and additional director at the Central Pollution Control Board. He pointed out that masks are a potential source of bacteria and viruses. “The moisture from exhalation inside the mask, when in constant contact with the 37 degrees Celsius warm human body, becomes ideal place for virus and bacteria to thrive,” he said. This could result in the growth of microbes on masks and aid the spread of airborne diseases like influenza. Emphasis added. If you are using a mask - be careful. There are downsides to masks. Some are serious.

The virus likely still "exist" it will just have lost its impact. With human to human transmission (unlike MERS) this thing is now part of the environment.

As of today a number that was communicated was 8 or 9 patients in the hospital for COVID-19.

ER doctor in Bakersfield California. Numbers, analysis, a lot of comparisons - other countries, flue, secondary effects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU

NY requires nursing homes to admit or re-admit residents - regardless of COVID-19 status. Link: http://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20Statement%20on%20State%20Advisories%20FINAL.pdf We are deeply concerned with the recent New York State order, which states: “No resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the NH solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission.” ... In New York, requiring all New York nursing homes state-wide to accept all patients regardless of their COVID-19 status,even from hospitals that are not at capacity,will likely cause many more hospitalizations,...

Companies are having to deal with the risks of re-opening. Most are reviewing existing and recent mandated laws and rules and looking liability in conjunction with their insurance providers and other entities. Even if government says "open" each entity will still have decisions to make and may have to stay closed until they sort the issues of 'the new world' out and have plans and new insurance policies, etc.

That question is one that is hard to figure out. Some may view they will have gains in a topic we can't discuss here. Or they do not understand that consequences will far outweigh any potential impact of the virus. It definitely seems the goalpost has been moved to parking lot in this "game". The curve was DOA (and maybe due to the extreme efforts). But why is it always "two more weeks" or "another whole month". One worst case scenerio I have seen floated went like this: "The actions taken make no sense for a natural virus. The actions taken make perfect sense if the virus was a bioweapon.". Flattening the curve is needed for a natural virus. If it is something more - then strict containment makes much more sense. But if it was the later - I would expect more solidarity at the government levels (states, Federal).

There is a silent majority that wants a more aggressive approach. Its not a binary approach, though the lock-downers what it to be portrayed as such.

Until... It reminds me of closing scene of Three Days of The Condor. 1:00 to 1:30, "Not now, then! People won't want us to ask them." Its easy to say you support something - until you can not feed your family. And that is coming. I hate to be gloomer-doomer, but was on a number of calls today. The stoppage is now hitting just about every company. Almost every single company is laying off or planning to do so by end of the month mostly likely. And it will not stop with the first wave. Rounds two and three are being teed up already. And if you are laid off - there is no meaningful jobs.

Kentucky may be artificially inflating its count. Kentucky is above the median for the states in this category.

Understand. Whatever this thing is - it is nasty. I am focusing on beefing up immune system as best possible. Vitamin C is foundation.

I read where vaccines for corona viruses are very hard to create. So anything is suspect and especially anything that comes out quickly. But it could be a TSA-like approach. i.e. make everyone feel secure and then continue on with life.

FDA approval does not really translate into guaranteed safe. There is still risk and there is always a certain amount of "adverse side effect" cases. If there was not. then US Code 300aa-22, that exempts vaccine manufacturers from most civil liability would not be needed.

There is a 60 Minutes segment on the impact of the rushed, poorly tested swine flu vaccine that is worth watching. 6. Besides Gates has enough money.