Sandman32

Nice Win for Conner. Great job Cougars. I have to admit that going into this one I thought NCC would win it easily.

Ditto

Over the past several days I’ve had time to reflect on this thread, and I’ve decided I owe an apology to Andrea Lanham, Gretchen Stephenson, and the folks at NKYVC. Initially I was drawn into this conversation because I felt that posters were unfairly criticizing Buck McCoart and TSE. I still do. BGP is a great place, but all too often posters hide behind unidentifiable names and try to push their own personal agendas, or attempt to rewrite history. I have been a member of BPG since 2004 and have seen this happen a lot. In my effort to illuminate and dispel that information I’m afraid I became that which I was trying to prevent. I am not personal friends with any of these folks, but have the highest regard for what they’ve accomplished. It’s true that much of my knowledge of the events at NDA comes second hand from parents, players, and competitor’s, and in hindsight it may not be entirely accurate. (remember what I said about people having agenda’s). I therefore would like to withdraw my assertions in this thread, and leave the debate over Buck and Andrea to NDA parents and the supporters of its program. Good Luck Panda's on your upcoming season.

Several years ago clubs in our area,(NKY/Cincinnati), and others around the country started going to an invitation process for 15 & up. In the USAV Pioneer Region, which Louisville is also a part of, invitations to a specific team in a club are allowed to be sent out on July 5th, after the completion of USAV Nationals. These clubs still hold Tryouts, which are generally held in October for the younger kids, and November for the older, but quite honestly most 15 & Up teams are filled by that point. Please feel free to check the facts of my statements with wxyz.

So your thoughts are facts, and mine are opinions. Interesting... I laid out lots of facts. Dispute them if you can. Tell me how wrong I am. If I am, I will admit it. I've demonstrated that already. Will you?

Sorry, this should have read "You also claim that Andrea didn’t select or coach Freshman (2018), and Sophomores (2017) in her program just because they weren’t on the varsity roster."

Sorry, you are correct about the hire dates. I apologize for not having my timing correct. I got his hire date confused with the last two basketball coaches, which happened around the dead period and therefore the coach was unable to speak with their team until after it was over. That one fact is in your favor. Yet let’s look a little closer at your statements and the situation. Volleyball tryouts at NDA happened after July 15th Buck’s first year, as they do every year, and invitations in club went out on July 4th. The Draud’s moved clubs before she actually made his HS team. Your implying that Buck and or TSE influenced that situation before he conducted his first official practice or held tryouts. Specifically, your saying that during open gyms he started making the kids drink the TSE cool aide. Right… At worst, they were chasing their future HS coach, which I don’t believe they did. I believe they truly chose that club over their current situation because they thought it was in their daughters best training interest. On coaches: Andrea fired Matt, correct? Matt co-owns TSE, correct? Yet that has nothing to do with why you, an Andrea supporter, despises TSE. Right... Concerning Assistant coaches: Last time I checked, all coaches, if not the head coach, were assistants, but you are correct in your splitting of hairs and saying that Christie was her Varsity Assistant that year. We both know I was referring to Gretchen, and that Gretchen and Andrea ran that program together. Gretchen’s daughter played at NKYVC then and now. You admitted that both Gretchen and Andrea have coached at NKYVC in the past. The Freshman head coach Dion was from NKYVC and coached 14’s. (8th graders). Andrea and Gretchen accompanied NKYVC when they put on clinics at the elementary parochial schools. Yet you are trying to say with a straight face that Andrea and Gretchen weren’t tied at the hip to NKYVC? The fact that neither of them were currently coaching a club team at NKYVC doesn’t mean that they didn’t have their hooks into her program, and the entire NKY parochial system which fed them. You also claim that Andrea didn’t select or coach Freshman (2020), and Sophomores (2019) in her program just because they weren’t on the varsity roster. Who is misleading who? Andrea ran a good program. She was intricately involved in all aspects. Also, the Senior Parent who became belligerent with a coach, did so to Gretchen at an after season party. Andrea had already left the party before then, and was not involved. Concerning Scholarships: Please do tell, where are the scholarship athletes that NDA is missing due to the coaching and club affiliation change? Which schools are these NKY D1 athletes attending over NDA because of the change in head coaches. Or are you saying that in two years’ time NDA’s program has been so effected by the inept coaching abilities of TSE that kids at NDA are no longer getting the level of coaching required to attain the next level. (Before you answer that you might want to check TSE's team finishes at Nationals. LOL) Personally I think NDA has several girls who will secure scholarships before they graduate. To imply that the available pool of talent at NDA is related to a coaching change or club affiliation change is ludicrous. It’s just not True. NKY has had an extended period of phenomenal volleyball athletes. If that period experiences a bump In the road it will not be due to training. What is obvious to me is that the Andrea vs Buck, and TSE vs NKYVC thing is personal for you. You despise TSE’s involvement with NDA’s program because their kids and feeder schools have migrated for the most part into that one training center, but when NKYVC was that provider it was perfectly acceptable. To sum this all up I’d like to use a quote from your previous post. You said, “NDA benefitted from NKYVC not the other way around. Now, TSE benefits from NDA....” I believe it should read. “Under Andrea NDA benefitted from NKYVC and others. Now under Buck NDA benefits from TSE and others.” Have you heard the phrase, "second verse, same as the first..."

Sarah's mom was openly telling folks they were gone before that season was over, which was before Andrea left. You also forget Dion, the freshman coach, was an NKYVC coach. And her assistant's daughter played at NKYVC. They also ran the same type of system that NKYVC did and openly told kids that. No, Andrea did not coach club... but to act as though she didn't benefit from her relationship with NKYVC is kinda crazy. By the way his fact of "Bucks Team" was wrong and I proved that...

Sure there is, just send your kid to Dixie. Even before Buck got to NDA the parents there were all sending their kids to NKYVC for much of the same reasons you and others are accusing TSE of. TSE was smart in luring all of the major high school coaches in Cincinnati to their club, and when the vacancy came open at NDA because Andrea decided to leave, they had the best coach on staff who applied to fill her shoes. It just worked out that way, but even before then quite a few NKYVC kids had transfered to TSE. ex. Sarah Droud I personally think chasing HS coaches is silly. Talent rises to the top regardless of affiliation. And besides, schollarships are earned at the club level. HS volleyball is meaningless to those who compete in club, and if you don't play club you won't play at NDA anyway.

Lol, this is a joke right? Last time I checked NDA still got all it's kids from the same sources. Whether their kids play at Tri-State, NKYVC, Elevation or Kiva in club, it won't change their address. And technically "Buck's Team" won't be here till next season, as 2018 was his first freshman class. Personally I don't think this years team will be strong, and have said that many times, but as has been pointed out to me many times, they will still probably be strong enough to win the 9th. And anyone who thought NDA would be as good as they've been without Morgan, and that class is just plain nuts. This sounds like sour NKYVC grapes to me.... or just somebody ship stirring.

Actually I know quite a bit about the former basketball coach, and he ran himself off. The AD's issues with him which forced him to leave had nothing to do with the parents. I'm sure the parents were a handful but he managed them. I think Buck's fine.

Please point out my contradictions.

Just food for thought. Bluegrass results: NCC faced Henry Clay in the championship and lost. They beat Cooper, Cooper beat Tates Creek. Campbell Co. beat Beechwood.

I agree. And I'm not trying to blow the whole thing up into something its not. Sorry if it sounds that way. I am unaware of any parent drama at NDA in the past two years to compete with Andrea's final season. There may be some, I just haven't heard of it. And if you look back you will see that I'm not the one who started this whole conversation.

Absolutely not. I believe the coach is in charge and parents shouldn't coach. Again, no. An AD has no business having an opinion that is other than the coaches regarding playing time. Because in my opinion, seasoned coaches are much more likely to handle the rigors of a program like NDA. Innocent coaches? lol That's rich. Come everyone, we must rise up and defend these frail little defenseless beings in need of our protection! PLEASE! Coaches are dictators. 99.9% of the time there is no recourse for a kid or parent to take if a coach decides little Janey is out and Jill is in. Nor in my opinion should there be. Little Janey should go to the coach and ask what she can do to either get her spot back or earn playing time somewhere else. If the coach doesn't allow either of those to happen, then tough. That's life... and sometimes it isn't fair... now deal with it. I am not an everybody deserves a happy ending or trophy kind of guy, and I believe kids learn much more by dealing with adversity. Somehow you seem to think I am an alpha parent in favor of the chaos. I'm not. But unlike you, I'm not blaming the parents for the entire issue. I'm blaming the coach, AD and administration too. Those three have a responsibility to set the tone for acceptable behavior by the players and parents, and then follow-up decisively when issues arise. You don't believe anymore than I do that the coach being confronted at the end of the year was the first issue with that group. The parents may have been the bad actors at the end of the scene put who allowed them to be on the stage? As far as coaches stepping down or retiring, I get it that sometimes they get tired of dealing with the bullcrap, but if you are a seasoned coach you know what it is you're signing up for when you take the job, and you deal with it. In situations where the AD or Administration don't support a coach or cave in to pressure from a parent, I'm sympathetic. But the fault in those situations is on the AD and Administration in my mind.

Obviously it's not the destination for every talented volleyball player in the region, but I will agree that it does benefit from the largest pool year in and year out. I hate hearing people cry about the "Parents ran so and so off". What did the coach expect things were going to be like, especially at a place like NDA? The expectation is High, the sideshow drama from Alpha Parents is High. Support from the AD and/or Administration is often lacking in these environments at one time or another. An experienced coach knows this when they take the job. Did Andrea or any of the other coaches you point to as being "run off" not have prior head coaching experience?

Actually your original post did contain a shot at him, but I will also concede that your intent was probably directed more at the Administration, Athletic Director, and Parents of Notre Dame.

Sorry, somehow I missed your response. I thought Andrea was an ok coach, but she did not win state, so I'm not sure how you can hold her on a pedestal and say she had a "lackluster" replacement, and in many peoples opinion Buck is actually one of the best coaches in all of the Tri-State. He was named the Enquirer Coach of the Year this year. Buck has done just as much as Andrea. Jen Woolf 53-15 .779 Championship Runner-up, Elite Eight, Andrea Lanham Sr. 147-41 .781 Championship Runner-up, Elite Eight, 2-Final Four, Regional Runner-up Buck McCoart 64-12 .842 Championship Runner-up, Final Four

I'm not sure NKY has had another Morgan or will see one, but that doesn't mean they won't or don't have some very talented volleyball players. Is there another girl who got a full ride to Stanford and was on the USA Youth National Team in our history? Keep in mind that those two things alone are pretty rare for anywhere in the country. I'd love to see a few more kids like her in my lifetime. She was special for sure. As far as NDA, I have friends whose daughters were already at NDA when Buck got hired and they said he told the girls he didn't care what club they played for but that he wanted them competing at the highest possible level. Not doubting what you heard, just adding my own two cents of what I heard as well.

OK. 14's year is 8th grade for just about everyone. It's still during the "tryouts" phase in club volleyball. So they were telling kids not even in high school yet that unless they played for TSE in club that they wouldn't start in HS. Wow! Buck has only been there for two years, (this will be his third season as a high school coach). So basically your saying he said that during his first season at NDA. hmmm, Interesting. I wonder if anyone asked if that applied to Morgan and the rest of the girls who played at NKYVC the next few years and started varsity.

Just so I understand correctly. Are you saying that a current parent at NDA who's daughter was a frosh thru sr. at the time had a coach that told them they had to switch, or an eighth grader or below.

I'm still waiting to hear who the good coach NDA lost is and their lackluster replacement? As far as HS coaches saying silly things I heard that last year one NKY coach told their kids that all of them needed to play for Crush volleyball if they wanted to play for said coach. Needless to say I think the coach forgot about that when the season started. My final series of observations this morning.... Parents are lemmings, especially parochial school parents. Most of them migrated to Tri-State on their own with very little prompting because they thought it would be good for their child's chances of making their future high school team, and because all their friends or frenemies were doing it. (Can't let someone else get a leg up on little Janie!) The older kids didn't show loyalty. They had invitations to come back to their current clubs and did. And speaking just on NKY, if you don't believe their is a difference between the amount of talent on a yearly basis at a school with 288 vs 588 then I can't help you. Yes it only takes 8 or 9 really good girls to win at the varsity level, but have you seen the kids playing 14-17 club levels at TSE, NKYVC, NKJV, or ? Where are all these studs going to come from when you consider the size of the region and its school districts, and the fact that a good portion of those premier players are Cincinnati kids? NKY is lucky to have the parity it does. NDA may dominate the number of regional titles for our area, but there are several public schools which are going to pose a serious challenge this season. And several have posed serious challenges in the past. People may like to say that NDA walks through the 9th region, but in a normal year without a player like Morgan Hence on the roster, its a little more complicated than that.

I don't know if it shows how weak the tournament is. It does show that the purpose of the tournament is being fullfilled. It's hard to argue that small schools should be placed on the same playing field for state playoffs as large schools, especially when you consider the public/private debate of it. Here's the enrollment figures of the big 4 as they pertain to the winners of the All-A Classic. Assumption 861 girls Sacred Heart 842 Girls Mercy 547 Girls Notre Dame 588 Girls St. Henry 288 Girls Holy Cross Cov 174 Girls Holy Cross Lou 91 girls Caldwell County 297 girls Presentation 253 Girls Villa Madonna 88 girls, (I'd like to have seen the group of girls play who won state for them. True David and Goliath stuff.) You can make a mcu easier argument against the bigger public schools IMO Ryle 907 girls Cooper 610 Girls Conner 677 SK 847 Scott 451 Dixie 664 CC 778 Highlands 498

Lots of great points in this thread. I agree with most of them. Club volleyball drives high school volleyball, and Club volleyball starts in elementary school. Until a large public school district's parents are willing to approach sports with the same intensity and emphasis that Louisville does at those ages it will be rinse and repeat for the state championship. Educators are not sports visionaries, at least not in the sense of creating sports dynasties like the Ron Kordes's of the world. Their goal is to create increased participation and parity in all sports so that kids stay in school and out of trouble. They measure reputable seasons by district, region or conference championships. The "All A" state championship that the little schools like Saint Henry and Holy Cross love to claim when they win is probably the closest thing to a class system of volleyball we will get and as long as that tournament keeps being held I don't see any changes by the KHSAA to anything.

My motive? Dude, I have been responding to info you provided and in the process have been enlightened by you and others close to the situation. I am the Dixie Fan.... it's kind of obvious if you look at my avatar. Whoops, I guess they got rid of those... any way 6,630 post and I bet 6,000 of them are about Dixie in some way or another. I am not indicting the coaching world. Hell I'm a retired coach. But since we've started down this rabbit hole I am pointing out the obvious which you seem to choose to ignore. If Coach Foust violated virtis rules and that was part of the reason he "quit", then you can't sweep that under the rug and act like its a silly rules thing. I had not heard that before today. Granted, most of what I am hearing on the side is second and third hand from parents at NDA, but I have learned of quite a few things that happened during his tenure that were more than adequate reasons for him to "quit". I think the fact that he suddenly left one of the top programs in the state for unemployment speaks volumes. He's your friend and fellow coach at Premier, I get it. You feel compelled to defend him. I might do the same if I were you. Note* People who "Quit" don't tend to send emails about the program on a Friday and then have there school email accounts disabled on Saturday. Good luck