bulldog77

I have read this thread and all the others in this forum now for weeks and in the final analysis it still comes down to a weak argument by the publics to "dumb down" the system. Rather than raising the bar, aiming higher, and yes, accepting defeat in some cases, they choose to litigate or legislate a perception of competitive balance. And I truly do mean a PERCEPTION of competitive balance becuase there still will not be anything resembling a level playing field for all schools of all sizes even if this ridiculous proposal were to pass. Ladiesballcoach your passions and convictions are admirable, however misplaced I personally believe them to be. The truth is the public systems have a history of trying to bring the leaders backwards to the pack rather than being creative in finding ways to advance their own situations. It is true in the way we now creatively measure test scores, it is true on the new ans "improved" ACT tests and it is true in the revised grading systems employed throughout most school districts. And don't give me the rhetoric about public school have-nots and inner-city or rural schols, I was one of those kids and I now work in that very same environment every day. I admire my superintendent and his assistants today because they have chosen to become creative in their attempt to solve the economic and family caused barriers to their student's success. That includes the athletic program as well. And they are among the smallest of districts in the state and we must compete with several of the "haves" as well as the private schools. No, it is never the right answer to bring the leaders to the pack. The answer is to find the means to catch the leaders. If any good comes of this mess I will stand and cheer, but I cannot see any benefit at this point.

Probably the same way they know when the ACT is, or the SAT, or where to get a drivers license or anything else that is common knowledge. Particularly when it's common knowledge to a particular group or family who has long been a part of the private schools. This isn't magical hidden information we're talking about here.

Phil Brockman (Dixie) - St. Catherine College (JUCO) Garrett Ferrar (NewCath) - Bluefield State (DII) Paul Behrens (Ludlow) - Bluefield State (DII) Matt Tepe (Ryle) - Hanover (NAIA) Daniel Miller (Ballard) - Murray State (DI) Addison Rouse (Boone Co.) - Ohio Valley College (DII)

runningref your commentary is splendid. Tubby'sbest friend have you seen the Herald Leader article in another thread here? 11 schools hold the VAST majority of state titles in football over the last decade. Only THREE are private. Only two, both in class 4A are clearly dominant over that span. Do we now kick out Beechwood, Highlands and Danville because the number CLEARLY show that they have a disproportionate number of championships (be they district, sectional or what have you, it doesn't matter in the least) in the singular sport of football. The argument of disproportionate winning is petty and misleading. As BigStud intimates, there will ALWAYS be programs that are consistently ahead of the pack for myriad reasons. To lay the problem at the feet of private schools in the face of disparities like total enrollment, open enrollment and independent districts who CHOOSE to accept or deny out of district transfers is ridiculous and clearly vindictive. ladiesballcoach, while I respect your passion on the subject I have no choice but to disagree on the basic principle as it is applied here. Selective persecution is NOT the way to deal with the small, KNOWN problems of illegal recruitment etc. that have prompted this feud. And using SELECTIVE STATISTICS to prove one's point goes back to snake oil salesmen and carpet baggers. Of course the proponents of this mess would LOVE to limit the discussion to the last ten years. But anyone who deals with statistics or even history knows about that little word, "trends." Anyone remember some 25 years ago when we wewre all wondering if anyone outside of Jefferson County would ever win another state basketball title (PRP, Ballard, Male, et al)? Remember the small but vocal minority of people pushing to have the Jefferson County Schools have their "own state title?" I sure do, and it is eerily similar in my mind to this current debate. Current rules already on the KHSAA books, IF ENFORCED, deal with any and all circumstances being cited as problems now quite nicely. In addition, competition for students is REAL WORLD (just ask anyone in Oldham County), and God forbid we involve students in real world scenarios, right?

Only three private schools on that list? Something is clearly wrong there! The "Ban the Privates" propaganda machine won't like that story!! Either that or they'll start on a new target because clearly Independent School Districts MUST have some kind of unfair edge. We MUST "balance the playing field!" Time to kick out Beechwood, Danville, Belfry, Highlands, Mayfield and the evil open enrollment Male Bulldogs!! I know, they can have their OWN championships! Congrats to every one of those superb programs mentioned. THAT is how you compete.

Got to see the HC team for next Spring this past summer and was impressed. Brady is a stud and they can definitel;y hit the ball. Pitching I saw that day (DH) was not overly impressive but certainly good enough to help them win and win alot. Always a good program as are most all of the Lexington baseball programs. Didn't get to see TC unfortunately. Also saw LCA in one game and they were not on the same calibre as last year's team, but that was, of course, a summer situation and they may have been missing quite a bit. They did not, however, fare well in the tournament I saw them in. Again pitching was a problem. They did have a tremendous left-handed stick that impressed me immensely. Catcher I want to say, but I just don't remember right now.

Emotional? Huh? Hardly the case. Upset? No. Rambling? I'll simplify it, no problem. I never said YOU were emotional about the issue. The point is that those at the state level who are pressing this issue are playing on the emotional aspects of the argument rather than logic. You mention that the privates have a competitive advantage that the publics can't get. As do the supporters of this proposal. My point is there are precisely the same, or at least very similar, competitive disadvantages that are NOT being addressed by this proposal. A small Class A school CANNOT GET 2,000 students. Therefore they CANNOT compete reasonably with a school such as Male, Henry Clay, et al in unclassified sports. You recognize the state's position in football, why is there no such recognition of the disparities in other sports? As a true sportsman yourself, you cannot believe that size does not matter in basketball or baseball. Therefore a clear competitive advantage that is ignored by the state in sports aside from football and track. My point again is, why address the issue of public/private without addressing, what is in my mind, a more pressing disadvantage in sports other than football. And one cannot argue we're JUST talking about football here because we aren't when it comes to this issue. This proposal will affect all sports. I suggest that the true issue is less about real competition and more about egos and has been programs that won't put in the work to catch up with the success some (and I emphasize some) private school programs have had. And with all due respect my friend, perhaps I didn't address your post specifically but I was adding a comment to the discussion as much as responding to your post.

I would be ashamed of any NKY school that would support this preposterous proposal. I'm pretty certain I know at least one small school on the river that won't be supporting it.

You are precisely correct on this one!

I'll gladly take a shot at this one. The REAL smoke and mirror trick is being done by those advocating this "separation." Here's why and how the classification argument IS valid. Asking for a "level playing field" is playing to the emotional aspect of competitive athletics rather than true competition. "My school is treated unfairly because..." is all perception when you understand that in truth there is no "fairness" in pure competitive athletics. But by taking one and only one aspect of "unfair competition" and deciding that it is the answer to all the problems associated with "level playing fields" is a joke. Far more inequities exist between being Bellevue and Male in basketball or, Silver Grove in baseball versus PRP than in the stated differences between NewCath and Danville for example. You simply cannot expect 1A schools to have the athletes, the resources, the facilities or the support base universally that is available to schools 3 to 8 times their size yet ignore that fact when making an argument about competitive advantages by private schools! Blindly attacking one aspect of compettitive disadvantages while clearly ignoring a more major flaw smacks of bias and vendetta. And recruiting isn't the only major issue here, at least not in the sense we are all being lead to believe. There are far, far more disagreements annually around the state about student athletes transferring from one public school to another (see anything associated with sports in and around Eastern Kentucky in recent years) than between public and private institutions. Just read the papers. No that's not a shot at mountain schools, just a statement of the facts. No, this proposal is a shot by a limited number of non-athlete administrators listening to an even more limited number of self-serving athletic directors and coaches and playing on the emotional aspects of other even less informed administrators. This is all about some former "haves" trying their best to get back what they think they've lost without having to put in the time, work and effort to EARN it back.

Okay everybody, we've all flexed our green and purple muscles. Now get back on topic please or we'll just shut this one down. Last I heard you couldn't hit a football with a bat even in the tenth region so . . . lets get back to a discussion of the 10th's baseball please.

And just to let everybody know . . . stay on topic and don't get into petty personal stuff. Jus a friendly little reminder!