How does he put to much pressure on his OL? Its hard to get rid of the ball quick, when there is no one open to throw the ball too. I mean last season we had a mobile QB in Fitzpatrick, and well that didn't seem to really help out things either. It all comes down to receivers aren't that great, and the offense of philosophy is just horrible. Everything works together in football. If Receivers can't get open, the QB has to hold on to the ball longer, and if the QB holds on to the ball longer then it makes it harder to block. Palmer showed more mobility this year than any year in the past, and made plays out of the pocket. It really just comes down to not having receivers who can get open.

 

Palmer stands in the pocket like a statue expecting to have 5 and 6 seconds to throw everytime he has the ball. You think he's comparable to someone like Roethlesberger? Roethlesberger is a big guy, not overly fast, but knows how to elude a rush. Palmer doesn't. He manages to scramble out every once in a great while, but then again, he should - he's a professional NFL QB, not a pee-wee player.

And I can think of quite a few games that it took Palmer for the Bengals to be able to lose.

 

He's average - at best. Serviceable for now, but if he doesn't show substantial improvement in 2010, it is time to move on. The Bengals will never go to the next level with a QB like him.

 

BTW, you're seriously gonna give yourself carpal tunnel if you don't learn a little brevity.

 

What games did the Bengals lose, that was mainly on Palmer? Which means your basically saying that you think if the Bengals had a different QB then they would have won. Please explain to me how and why you think its so easy to replace a QB, and have that QB do well?

 

Also you compare him to Big Ben, who most people say might be one of the best in the NFL in avoiding the rush. Not a good comparison. Sure anybody would love to have a QB, that can avoid it like Ben. You do realize Big Ben also takes usually the most sacks in the NFL. That never really seemed to be a problem with Palmer early in his career when he had guys to throw to who could get open. Get some talented guys at receiver, and then things wouldn't be that big of a problem. As I said its hard to throw the ball, when no one is open.

What games did the Bengals lose, that was mainly on Palmer? Which means your basically saying that you think if the Bengals had a different QB then they would have won. Please explain to me how and why you think its so easy to replace a QB, and have that QB do well?

 

Also you compare him to Big Ben, who most people say might be one of the best in the NFL in avoiding the rush. Not a good comparison. Sure anybody would love to have a QB, that can avoid it like Ben. You do realize Big Ben also takes usually the most sacks in the NFL. That never really seemed to be a problem with Palmer early in his career when he had guys to throw to who could get open. Get some talented guys at receiver, and then things wouldn't be that big of a problem. As I said its hard to throw the ball, when no one is open.

 

And super hard to complete them when you're constantly throwing behind them and over their heads.

 

The discussion now bores me. You think the world of Palmer and that's great. I wish he were every bit as good as you seem to think he is. He seems like a great guy who represents the team well. But his play has been very inconsistent and sometimes downright awful the past few years. He was a #1 draft pick that is now considered nothing more than a very average NFL QB. If he can't perform any better than he has in recent years, I'd prefer to see someone else under center. You seem to think the only option is to replace him with some high school level QB. There's plenty of other options out there and I suspect the Bengals will start exploring them heavily if he fairs similarly in 2010.

:laugh: That is all there really is to say about these post.

 

Is he as good as he was in 2005 no. Does he have around him what he had in 2005, not even close. Do they still run a pass first offense, and let him choose to plays at the line like in 2005, not at all. How many QB's have been elite QB's playing in a run first offense? Not many, if any at all. To say he should be a backup is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. You all seriously must have forgot how bad we had it with QB's after Boomer first left and then retired. Its not easy to go out and get a dependable QB. We have one right now in Palmer, and put some better talent around him and he will do better. Yeah he is not as good as Manning, Brady, Favre or people like that. However shouldn't compare him to those guys because those guys will go down as some of the best QB's of all time. Palmer is a guy they can win with and have won with, and to say he should be a backup is crazy and shows very little football knowledge. Do you all honestly think the Bengals beat the Packers without Palmer this year, or the Steelers, or the Ravens? It took having Palmer to beat those teams. There is not much talent on this offense to work with, and Palmer probably did as best as he could do with what they had. Did have have some bad throws, definitely. Is he a guy they should give up on not at all. He is a guy they can win with, if they put the right people around him.

 

They will be back to 6-8 wins next year because of the schedule and then get the 3rd place schedule the following year and may get back to 9-10 wins. He is an average NFL QB and I don't feel they will ever win in the playoffs with him. If we had the Palmer before he got hurt my opinion would change. He is 42-39 as a starter in the NFL and 0-2 in the playoffs ( hard to count the first loss as I feel that would have won that game ). He is an average NFL QB. I wish he wasn't.

And super hard to complete them when you're constantly throwing behind them and over their heads.

 

The discussion now bores me. You think the world of Palmer and that's great. I wish he were every bit as good as you seem to think he is. He seems like a great guy who represents the team well. But his play has been very inconsistent and sometimes downright awful the past few years. He was a #1 draft pick that is now considered nothing more than a very average NFL QB. If he can't perform any better than he has in recent years, I'd prefer to see someone else under center. You seem to think the only option is to replace him with some high school level QB. There's plenty of other options out there and I suspect the Bengals will start exploring them heavily if he fairs similarly in 2010.

 

Please tell me what other options out there that are better? I would really like to hear this.

 

I am not saying by any means that Palmer has been great. If you noticed I even said Palmer had a really bad game against the Jets. He definitely has missed some passes. However some of you all seem to think it is just so easy to find a QB and win a games with them. I would think you would realize how hard that actually is, after what we went through before we got Palmer. If it was so easy to find a QB to win with, then we probably would have made the playoffs some more before Palmer arrived.

 

I think the main problem is some of you all got spoiled with how great he was in 2005 and 2006, and want to see that and have forgotten what it is really like to have a bad QB and that is not Palmer. Say what you want, but this team does not make the playoffs without Palmer. You act like you could throw someone else on this team, and they would have done the same. They would have not beaten Packers, Steelers, Ravens or any of those teams. This offense with any QB was not going to do great. Then having a QB who doesn't know much about those teams, would have definitely lost. Yes Palmer is not in the same class as the Mannings, or Bradys like we thought he might have been like a few years ago. However he is a guy they just did get done winning with, and could still win with. Then if you put better guys around him, then he also would do better. That is not hard to see at all.

They will be back to 6-8 wins next year because of the schedule and then get the 3rd place schedule the following year and may get back to 9-10 wins. He is an average NFL QB and I don't feel they will ever win in the playoffs with him. If we had the Palmer before he got hurt my opinion would change. He is 42-39 as a starter in the NFL and 0-2 in the playoffs ( hard to count the first loss as I feel that would have won that game ). He is an average NFL QB. I wish he wasn't.

 

Answer this question honestly. Do you think many QB's would have been much more than average, working with what he had to work with in this offense. Take everything into account. Having no TE, one good receiver after they lost Henry, and an offense coordinator who is predictable. I mean if us fans know what is coming before we run the play, then safe bet the defense sure does to. So unless maybe your Peyton Manning, or Favre. Or one of those types that might go down as some of the best ever. Then most QB's would have just been average too. You all really have to take everything into account and look at it in the big picture. Not many QB's would have been better than average in this offense.

Answer this question honestly. Do you think many QB's would have been much more than average, working with what he had to work with in this offense. Take everything into account. Having no TE, one good receiver after they lost Henry, and an offense coordinator who is predictable. I mean if us fans know what is coming before we run the play, then safe bet the defense sure does to. So unless maybe your Peyton Manning, or Favre. Or one of those types that might go down as some of the best ever. Then most QB's would have just been average too. You all really have to take everything into account and look at it in the big picture. Not many QB's would have been better than average in this offense.

 

Take a look at the top 20 QB's in the league by passer rating. I would take everyone of them over Palmer with the exception of Orton,Garrard and maybe Campbell. As bad as Jason Campbell seemed to be this year he has a higher QB rating than Palmer. Vince Young has a much better W-L record than Palmer in the NFL and what receivers has he had? I hope I am wrong but I feel he will never much better than an average NFL QB.

Statistics

By Player Category

By Player Position

By Team Category

 

 

 

 

Passing (Qualified* | All)

Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate

1 Drew Brees NO QB 363 514 70.6 34.3 4,388 8.5 292.5 34 11 210 40.9 75T 58 11 20 109.6

2 Brett Favre MIN QB 363 531 68.4 33.2 4,202 7.9 262.6 33 7 211 39.7 63 52 13 34 107.2

3 Philip Rivers SD QB 317 486 65.2 30.4 4,254 8.8 265.9 28 9 208 42.8 81T 64 12 25 104.4

4 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 350 541 64.7 33.8 4,434 8.2 277.1 30 7 197 36.4 83T 55 17 50 103.2

5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 337 506 66.6 33.7 4,328 8.6 288.5 26 12 202 39.9 60T 61 14 50 100.5

6 Peyton Manning IND QB 393 571 68.8 35.7 4,500 7.9 281.2 33 16 237 41.5 80T 59 8 10 99.9

7 Matt Schaub HOU QB 396 583 67.9 36.4 4,770 8.2 298.1 29 15 230 39.5 72T 62 15 25 98.6

8 Tony Romo DAL QB 347 550 63.1 34.4 4,483 8.2 280.2 26 9 203 36.9 80T 61 17 34 97.6

9 Tom Brady NE QB 371 565 65.7 35.3 4,398 7.8 274.9 28 13 214 37.9 81T 43 12 16 96.2

10 Kurt Warner ARI QB 339 513 66.1 34.2 3,753 7.3 250.2 26 14 191 37.2 45 42 3 24 93.2

11 Eli Manning NYG QB 317 509 62.3 31.8 4,021 7.9 251.3 27 14 183 36.0 74T 60 12 30 93.1

12 Donovan McNabb PHI QB 267 443 60.3 31.6 3,553 8.0 253.8 22 10 148 33.4 60T 55 17 35 92.9

13 Joe Flacco BAL QB 315 499 63.1 31.2 3,613 7.2 225.8 21 12 186 37.3 72T 44 8 36 88.9

14 Kyle Orton DEN QB 336 541 62.1 33.8 3,802 7.0 237.6 21 12 185 34.2 87T 43 9 29 86.8

15 Jason Campbell WAS QB 327 507 64.5 31.7 3,618 7.1 226.1 20 15 186 36.7 84 40 8 43 86.4

16 Carson Palmer CIN QB 282 466 60.5 29.1 3,094 6.6 193.4 21 13 158 33.9 73 36 5 26 83.6

17 David Garrard JAC QB 314 516 60.9 32.2 3,597 7.0 224.8 15 10 170 32.9 63 44 6 42 83.5

18 Vince Young TEN QB 152 259 58.7 21.6 1,879 7.3 156.6 10 7 91 35.1 66T 21 4 9 82.8

19 Alex Smith SF QB 225 372 60.5 33.8 2,350 6.3 213.6 18 12 98 26.3 73T 33 5 22 81.5

20 Matt Ryan ATL QB 263 451 58.3 32.2 2,916 6.5 208.3 22 14 152 33.7 90T 31 4 19 80.9

^ Over the course of an entire season, the numbers tell the story.

Take a look at the top 20 QB's in the league by passer rating. I would take everyone of them over Palmer with the exception of Orton,Garrard and maybe Campbell. As bad as Jason Campbell seemed to be this year he has a higher QB rating than Palmer. Vince Young has a much better W-L record than Palmer in the NFL and what receivers has he had? I hope I am wrong but I feel he will never much better than an average NFL QB.

Statistics

By Player Category

By Player Position

By Team Category

 

 

 

 

Passing (Qualified* | All)

Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate

1 Drew Brees NO QB 363 514 70.6 34.3 4,388 8.5 292.5 34 11 210 40.9 75T 58 11 20 109.6

2 Brett Favre MIN QB 363 531 68.4 33.2 4,202 7.9 262.6 33 7 211 39.7 63 52 13 34 107.2

3 Philip Rivers SD QB 317 486 65.2 30.4 4,254 8.8 265.9 28 9 208 42.8 81T 64 12 25 104.4

4 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 350 541 64.7 33.8 4,434 8.2 277.1 30 7 197 36.4 83T 55 17 50 103.2

5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 337 506 66.6 33.7 4,328 8.6 288.5 26 12 202 39.9 60T 61 14 50 100.5

6 Peyton Manning IND QB 393 571 68.8 35.7 4,500 7.9 281.2 33 16 237 41.5 80T 59 8 10 99.9

7 Matt Schaub HOU QB 396 583 67.9 36.4 4,770 8.2 298.1 29 15 230 39.5 72T 62 15 25 98.6

8 Tony Romo DAL QB 347 550 63.1 34.4 4,483 8.2 280.2 26 9 203 36.9 80T 61 17 34 97.6

9 Tom Brady NE QB 371 565 65.7 35.3 4,398 7.8 274.9 28 13 214 37.9 81T 43 12 16 96.2

10 Kurt Warner ARI QB 339 513 66.1 34.2 3,753 7.3 250.2 26 14 191 37.2 45 42 3 24 93.2

11 Eli Manning NYG QB 317 509 62.3 31.8 4,021 7.9 251.3 27 14 183 36.0 74T 60 12 30 93.1

12 Donovan McNabb PHI QB 267 443 60.3 31.6 3,553 8.0 253.8 22 10 148 33.4 60T 55 17 35 92.9

13 Joe Flacco BAL QB 315 499 63.1 31.2 3,613 7.2 225.8 21 12 186 37.3 72T 44 8 36 88.9

14 Kyle Orton DEN QB 336 541 62.1 33.8 3,802 7.0 237.6 21 12 185 34.2 87T 43 9 29 86.8

15 Jason Campbell WAS QB 327 507 64.5 31.7 3,618 7.1 226.1 20 15 186 36.7 84 40 8 43 86.4

16 Carson Palmer CIN QB 282 466 60.5 29.1 3,094 6.6 193.4 21 13 158 33.9 73 36 5 26 83.6

17 David Garrard JAC QB 314 516 60.9 32.2 3,597 7.0 224.8 15 10 170 32.9 63 44 6 42 83.5

18 Vince Young TEN QB 152 259 58.7 21.6 1,879 7.3 156.6 10 7 91 35.1 66T 21 4 9 82.8

19 Alex Smith SF QB 225 372 60.5 33.8 2,350 6.3 213.6 18 12 98 26.3 73T 33 5 22 81.5

20 Matt Ryan ATL QB 263 451 58.3 32.2 2,916 6.5 208.3 22 14 152 33.7 90T 31 4 19 80.9

 

^ Over the course of an entire season, the numbers tell the story.

 

From Bengals.com

 

With Chris Henry the Bengals were 18-for-25 on TDs in the red zone, Palmer had 14 touchdown passes and six 200-yard passing days in the first eight games with Henry, slot receiver Andre Caldwell had 29 catches, three touchdowns and a long of 24 while Chad Ochocinco had 44 catches for five touchdowns.

 

In the final eight weeks, which included Henry’s death in a pickup truck accident while he was on injured reserve, Palmer had six TD passes and three 200-yard days, Caldwell had 22 catches with no touchdowns and a long ball of 17 while The Ocho had just 28 catches and four TDs.

 

People really need to look at everything. With Talent it has been shown and proven that Palmer still can put up good numbers. With Chris Henry, you can see that he was doing pretty well. Without Chris Henry, his numbers and well everyone's numbers went down. Keep in mind that the first half the of the season was even against better teams. That just goes to show, that if you have some talent around Palmer he is just fine and will do good. Now when he doesn't have much talent, like in the second part of the season he will struggle. Its really not that hard to see people.

 

Yes Palmer is not going to put up those numbers that he did in 05 and 06, and that is going to be a lot because of the style Marvin likes to run won't allow that. However if you put some talent around him, Palmer will still put up good numbers and win games for the Bengals. You can just look at the numbers from when they did have another talented receiver in Henry, and see how Palmer did much better then. With some better guys at receiver, Palmer will be just fine people.

From Bengals.com

 

With Chris Henry the Bengals were 18-for-25 on TDs in the red zone, Palmer had 14 touchdown passes and six 200-yard passing days in the first eight games with Henry, slot receiver Andre Caldwell had 29 catches, three touchdowns and a long of 24 while Chad Ochocinco had 44 catches for five touchdowns.

 

In the final eight weeks, which included Henry’s death in a pickup truck accident while he was on injured reserve, Palmer had six TD passes and three 200-yard days, Caldwell had 22 catches with no touchdowns and a long ball of 17 while The Ocho had just 28 catches and four TDs.

 

People really need to look at everything. With Talent it has been shown and proven that Palmer still can put up good numbers. With Chris Henry, you can see that he was doing pretty well. Without Chris Henry, his numbers and well everyone's numbers went down. Keep in mind that the first half the of the season was even against better teams. That just goes to show, that if you have some talent around Palmer he is just fine and will do good. Now when he doesn't have much talent, like in the second part of the season he will struggle. Its really not that hard to see people.

 

Yes Palmer is not going to put up those numbers that he did in 05 and 06, and that is going to be a lot because of the style Marvin likes to run won't allow that. However if you put some talent around him, Palmer will still put up good numbers and win games for the Bengals. You can just look at the numbers from when they did have another talented receiver in Henry, and see how Palmer did much better then. With some better guys at receiver, Palmer will be just fine people.

 

Wow, Chris Henry was apparently on his way to being the team MVP this year. And to think he was averaging a whole 1.5 receptions per game.

 

Palmer's "big" games that you like to point out - Packers and Bears - are against two teams that had miserable defenses and most teams ate up. In fact, Palmer almost blew the Packers game by throwing two critical picks, including one to Woodson for a TD. I'm not impressed simply because he put up some number in those games.

 

Perhaps the sign of a truly good QB - a former #1 draft pick such as Palmer who should be in the prime of his career - is to elevate the level of play of his "substandard" teammates. I did not see Palmer do this. Perhaps it is just entirely possible that Coles, CJ, and Caldwell are a little better than they appeared, but looked worse because of Palmer's inconsistency and inaccuracy. Perhaps it's possible that Palmer's poor throwing put our OC in a tough spots at times with limited play-calling options. Perhaps . . . .

 

The reality is that it's a little of it all - WR corps that is very average, an OC that isn't overly innovative, an OL that is better at rush blocking than pass blocking, AND mostly certainly a QB - once considered to be elite and the man to take the Bengals to the promised land - that was a disappointment and underperformed and is, quite frankly, overrated.

From Bengals.com

 

With Chris Henry the Bengals were 18-for-25 on TDs in the red zone, Palmer had 14 touchdown passes and six 200-yard passing days in the first eight games with Henry, slot receiver Andre Caldwell had 29 catches, three touchdowns and a long of 24 while Chad Ochocinco had 44 catches for five touchdowns.

 

In the final eight weeks, which included Henry’s death in a pickup truck accident while he was on injured reserve, Palmer had six TD passes and three 200-yard days, Caldwell had 22 catches with no touchdowns and a long ball of 17 while The Ocho had just 28 catches and four TDs.

 

People really need to look at everything. With Talent it has been shown and proven that Palmer still can put up good numbers. With Chris Henry, you can see that he was doing pretty well. Without Chris Henry, his numbers and well everyone's numbers went down. Keep in mind that the first half the of the season was even against better teams. That just goes to show, that if you have some talent around Palmer he is just fine and will do good. Now when he doesn't have much talent, like in the second part of the season he will struggle. Its really not that hard to see people.

 

Yes Palmer is not going to put up those numbers that he did in 05 and 06, and that is going to be a lot because of the style Marvin likes to run won't allow that. However if you put some talent around him, Palmer will still put up good numbers and win games for the Bengals. You can just look at the numbers from when they did have another talented receiver in Henry, and see how Palmer did much better then. With some better guys at receiver, Palmer will be just fine people.

 

Let's agree to disagree. I think you are blinded by your fandom. I think Palmer is a great leader, great face for the franchise, average NFL QB that will never get them over the top.

Wow, Chris Henry was apparently on his way to being the team MVP this year. And to think he was averaging a whole 1.5 receptions per game.

 

Palmer's "big" games that you like to point out - Packers and Bears - are against two teams that had miserable defenses and most teams ate up. In fact, Palmer almost blew the Packers game by throwing two critical picks, including one to Woodson for a TD. I'm not impressed simply because he put up some number in those games.

 

Perhaps the sign of a truly good QB - a former #1 draft pick such as Palmer who should be in the prime of his career - is to elevate the level of play of his "substandard" teammates. I did not see Palmer do this. Perhaps it is just entirely possible that Coles, CJ, and Caldwell are a little better than they appeared, but looked worse because of Palmer's inconsistency and inaccuracy. Perhaps it's possible that Palmer's poor throwing put our OC in a tough spots at times with limited play-calling options. Perhaps . . . .

 

The reality is that it's a little of it all - WR corps that is very average, an OC that isn't overly innovative, an OL that is better at rush blocking than pass blocking, AND mostly certainly a QB - once considered to be elite and the man to take the Bengals to the promised land - that was a disappointment and underperformed and is, quite frankly, overrated.

 

Henry wasn't posting huge numbers but his presence was felt even when he wasn't catching passes.

Henry wasn't posting huge numbers but his presence was felt even when he wasn't catching passes.

 

Absolutely agree. And he was also underutilized. But I just think don't think it's accurate to say that nearly the entire sum of Palmer's successes or failures fell on his presence in the lineup. Palmer is responsible for the majority of his own failures, which were substantial this season.

Wow, Chris Henry was apparently on his way to being the team MVP this year. And to think he was averaging a whole 1.5 receptions per game.

 

Palmer's "big" games that you like to point out - Packers and Bears - are against two teams that had miserable defenses and most teams ate up. In fact, Palmer almost blew the Packers game by throwing two critical picks, including one to Woodson for a TD. I'm not impressed simply because he put up some number in those games.

 

Perhaps the sign of a truly good QB - a former #1 draft pick such as Palmer who should be in the prime of his career - is to elevate the level of play of his "substandard" teammates. I did not see Palmer do this. Perhaps it is just entirely possible that Coles, CJ, and Caldwell are a little better than they appeared, but looked worse because of Palmer's inconsistency and inaccuracy. Perhaps it's possible that Palmer's poor throwing put our OC in a tough spots at times with limited play-calling options. Perhaps . . . .

 

The reality is that it's a little of it all - WR corps that is very average, an OC that isn't overly innovative, an OL that is better at rush blocking than pass blocking, AND mostly certainly a QB - once considered to be elite and the man to take the Bengals to the promised land - that was a disappointment and underperformed and is, quite frankly, overrated.

 

Lets see here, obviously you are someone who doesn't look at everything. I am pretty sure you could see, how everyone on the team did better when Henry was playing, the stats show that. Yes he only had 12 catches, but him just playing opened things up for everyone and that is not to hard to see. Why was the offense better when Henry was playing? It was because he had talent, and what is the argument I been saying here? Thats right get some more guys with talent around Palmer, and we will be just fine. The Bengals don't need a new QB, or shouldn't be looking for a new QB. That is to hard to find, they already have a QB they could win win, just get some more talent around him and they will be fine and the stats back that up like it or not.

 

Also man you might want to look into some things more next time before you say something. What you said about the Green Bay defense and most teams eating them up just makes you look silly. I don't think you realize that Green Bay finished the season 2nd in the whole NFL in defense, only behind the Jets. Green Bay was 5th against the pass, and 1st against the run. Good call on that one. Maybe next time though man. :thumb:

 

You really just don't seem to get it though. I know Palmer needs to play better, and I don't put him up in the same level as Manning, or Brady, etc. However he is not a bad QB like you try to make him sound like. He is a guy the Bengals very well can win with, and have won with. Get more talent around him and he also would do better, as I said before the Stats do back that up, even from this season.

Lets see here, obviously you are someone who doesn't look at everything. I am pretty sure you could see, how everyone on the team did better when Henry was playing, the stats show that. Yes he only had 12 catches, but him just playing opened things up for everyone and that is not to hard to see. Why was the offense better when Henry was playing? It was because he had talent, and what is the argument I been saying here? Thats right get some more guys with talent around Palmer, and we will be just fine. The Bengals don't need a new QB, or shouldn't be looking for a new QB. That is to hard to find, they already have a QB they could win win, just get some more talent around him and they will be fine and the stats back that up like it or not.

 

Also man you might want to look into some things more next time before you say something. What you said about the Green Bay defense and most teams eating them up just makes you look silly. I don't think you realize that Green Bay finished the season 2nd in the whole NFL in defense, only behind the Jets. Green Bay was 5th against the pass, and 1st against the run. Good call on that one. Maybe next time though man. :thumb:

 

You really just don't seem to get it though. I know Palmer needs to play better, and I don't put him up in the same level as Manning, or Brady, etc. However he is not a bad QB like you try to make him sound like. He is a guy the Bengals very well can win with, and have won with. Get more talent around him and he also would do better, as I said before the Stats do back that up, even from this season.

 

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: Yes, yes, you are the expert. I humbly bow down to your unparalleled football brilliance and "interesting" writing style.