I've brought this up before but feel like doing it again.

 

Let's say that I sit down at a table with 3 of my friends with a standard, 52-card deck that has been shuffled. I deal out 13 cards to each person, and I receive all 13 spades, from 2 to Ace.

 

There is no video of me or anyone messing with the deck at any point. Using your powers of observation and logic, would you assume that:

 

A) I randomly received all 13 spades.

B) I took some action beforehand that made me deal 13 spades to myself.

 

Let's hear your thoughts. I promise there is a purpose to this. :lol:

While not an athiest it would be logical, knowing that people would be involved in some way to think that the deck had been stacked. Especially if an individual is doing so to make a point. The odds of such things occurring are remote.

 

However I do believe that a guy lost in the World Series of poker recently with 4 aces to a Royal Flush, which has astronomical odds as well. :clap:

 

 

In this case the Ace that gave the guy 4 aces on the river also completed the Royal Flush for the other guy.

I've brought this up before but feel like doing it again.

 

Let's say that I sit down at a table with 3 of my friends with a standard, 52-card deck that has been shuffled. I deal out 13 cards to each person, and I receive all 13 spades, from 2 to Ace.

 

There is no video of me or anyone messing with the deck at any point. Using your powers of observation and logic, would you assume that:

 

A) I randomly received all 13 spades.

B) I took some action beforehand that made me deal 13 spades to myself.

 

Let's hear your thoughts. I promise there is a purpose to this. :lol:

I'll play along.

 

Knowing that you seem to be a stand up guy, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. I play some form of cards at least three times a week and I have seen crazy things happen with a very unlikely probability and I KNOW the deck wasn't stacked. Therefore it could happen.

I'll play along.

 

Knowing that you seem to be a stand up guy, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. I play some form of cards at least three times a week and I have seen crazy things happen with a very unlikely probability and I KNOW the deck wasn't stacked. Therefore it could happen.

 

That's fine. The probability of that happening is 169,066,442 to 1.

 

What if we sat down at the table and, despite the deck being randomly shuffled, I dealt a perfect hand to all 4 players (each player received 13 cards of the same suit). Would you assume that I stacked the deck?

 

FWIW, the odds of that happening are 2,235,197,406,895,366,368,301,559,999 to 1.

That's fine. The probability of that happening is 169,066,442 to 1.

 

What if we sat down at the table and, despite the deck being randomly shuffled, I dealt a perfect hand to all 4 players (each player received 13 cards of the same suit). Would you assume that I stacked the deck?

 

FWIW, the odds of that happening are 2,235,197,406,895,366,368,301,559,999 to 1.

I know where you are going with this...

 

I know that humans are capable of doing decietful things so yes there would be a doubt in my mind. But honestly, I don't like cheaters in cards, and tend to think that they are bad people...as I don't play with them I would have to assume that it's random. But since a human being is behind it, I'm sure they could stack the deck. Now if you want to tell me an imaginary ghost did it...then I'll call you crazy.

I know where you are going with this...

 

I know that humans are capable of doing decietful things so yes there would be a doubt in my mind. But honestly, I don't like cheaters in cards, and tend to think that they are bad people...as I don't play with them I would have to assume that it's random. But since a human being is behind it, I'm sure they could stack the deck. Now if you want to tell me an imaginary ghost did it...then I'll call you crazy.

Darn it, I was just going to call you crazy!

 

The reason that I ask these questions (and that you saw from a mile away :lol:) is because I think it relates to the origin of life. Let's imagine the earth before living organisms existed. Take the simplest living organism on earth- a unicellular prokaryote with a single loop of DNA- and we'll assume that the DNA strand has 100 bases (much smaller than any DNA strand on Earth that actually exists).

 

Charles Darwin suggested that simple chemicals in small bodies of water spontaneously formed organic compounds with the aid of energy (such as heat, light, etc.). Using our hypothetical unicellular prokaryote with one DNA strand of a 100 bases (smaller than what actually exists), the odds of a particular lucky combination would be 1,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1. (4 to the 100th)

 

This is not a proof that evolution did not occur, nor is a proof of any specific religion (such as Christianity). However, I think it is illogical to leave such astronomical odds to random chance. Rather, I think it is more logical to assume that there is some intelligent being that started this whole process. So, I've chosen to believe in an imaginary ghost, and you think that I'm crazy. I think that you are confusing the improbable with the impossible. I think that your faith in astronomically unlikely scenarios may be stronger than my faith in God (I can say this because I have doubts). If you categorize craziness by faith in ideas with no proof and plenty of reasons to not believe, then I say you are the crazy one. An intelligent being is more likely than random chance.

 

I'd also love to play poker with you- I'd show you my 9-10-J-Q-K straight flush, and you find it entirely plausible that you'd win.

Darn it, I was just going to call you crazy!

 

The reason that I ask these questions (and that you saw from a mile away :lol:) is because I think it relates to the origin of life. Let's imagine the earth before living organisms existed. Take the simplest living organism on earth- a unicellular prokaryote with a single loop of DNA- and we'll assume that the DNA strand has 100 bases (much smaller than any DNA strand on Earth that actually exists).

 

Charles Darwin suggested that simple chemicals in small bodies of water spontaneously formed organic compounds with the aid of energy (such as heat, light, etc.). Using our hypothetical unicellular prokaryote with one DNA strand of a 100 bases (smaller than what actually exists), the odds of a particular lucky combination would be 1,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1. (4 to the 100th)

 

This is not a proof that evolution did not occur, nor is a proof of any specific religion (such as Christianity). However, I think it is illogical to leave such astronomical odds to random chance. Rather, I think it is more logical to assume that there is some intelligent being that started this whole process. So, I've chosen to believe in an imaginary ghost, and you think that I'm crazy. I think that you are confusing the improbable with the impossible. I think that your faith in astronomically unlikely scenarios may be stronger than my faith in God (I can say this because I have doubts). If you categorize craziness by faith in ideas with no proof and plenty of reasons to not believe, then I say you are the crazy one. An intelligent being is more likely than random chance.

 

I'd also love to play poker with you- I'd show you my 9-10-J-Q-K straight flush, and you find it entirely plausible that you'd win.

Trust me, I totally get what your saying. In all honesty, I'm at the point where I'm not entirely sold on the creation theories we have now. But I also remember that at one time humans thought the earth was flat. I'm not sure where exactly the answer is, and I can also give in to the notion that maybe it hasn't been found yet. But, I think it's crazy to believe that the answer lies in our imagination.

 

BUT, let's say you are right and an intelligent being did create our planet. Then where did that intelligent being come from itself? Did it miracously appear out of thin air itself?

 

I'm not one of those atheist that get to hung up on creation theories. I'm much more concerned with studying and looking at the world around us. But I'm always willing to have an intelligent conversation, so keep them coming!

BUT, let's say you are right and an intelligent being did create our planet. Then where did that intelligent being come from itself? Did it miracously appear out of thin air itself?

What you are asking, if I'm not mistaken, is what caused the intelligent being. This is the reason why I believe that the intelligent being had no cause- as Aristotle/Aquinas would say, an Uncaused Cause.

 

Everything in the universe is contingent on something else. There has to be something non-contingent to ground the contingent. That is what we call God.

What you are asking, if I'm not mistaken, is what caused the intelligent being. This is the reason why I believe that the intelligent being had no cause- as Aristotle/Aquinas would say, an Uncaused Cause.

 

Everything in the universe is contingent on something else. There has to be something non-contingent to ground the contingent. That is what we call God.

This is something I'm not very familiar with (ok, no clue at all). But if I'm getting this right, it is the belief that something had to be there first, just cause?

This is something I'm not very familiar with (ok, no clue at all). But if I'm getting this right, it is the belief that something had to be there first, just cause?

 

If the universe exists, either it existed forever, or something caused it. The universe has existed for 13.8 billion years, as shown by science. Therefore, something outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. Make any sense?

If the universe exists, either it existed forever, or something caused it. The universe has existed for 13.8 billion years, as shown by science. Therefore, something outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. Make any sense?

Yes. Not for sure how much stock I would put into it, but one day I would love to read more about it.

Yes. Not for sure how much stock I would put into it, but one day I would love to read more about it.

 

FWIW, this isn't even a proof of theism. It supports the idea of deism or panentheism as well. I think it contradicts atheism and pantheism, though. The fact that the universe has a beginning means that something started it. The fact that life began on earth immediately after earth's conditions made it possible, and the fact that the complexity of the laws of nature leads to me to believe that it was an intelligent being, not randomness.

This is something I'm not very familiar with (ok, no clue at all). But if I'm getting this right, it is the belief that something had to be there first, just cause?

 

If the universe exists, either it existed forever, or something caused it. The universe has existed for 13.8 billion years, as shown by science. Therefore, something outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. Make any sense?

 

Principle of Causality, with God as the First Cause.

Trust me, I totally get what your saying. In all honesty, I'm at the point where I'm not entirely sold on the creation theories we have now. But I also remember that at one time humans thought the earth was flat. I'm not sure where exactly the answer is, and I can also give in to the notion that maybe it hasn't been found yet. But, I think it's crazy to believe that the answer lies in our imagination.

 

BUT, let's say you are right and an intelligent being did create our planet. Then where did that intelligent being come from itself? Did it miracously appear out of thin air itself?

 

I'm not one of those atheist that get to hung up on creation theories. I'm much more concerned with studying and looking at the world around us. But I'm always willing to have an intelligent conversation, so keep them coming!

 

Even worse: I also remember that at one time moderates thought that Pres. Obama was not a liberal.

Darn it, I was just going to call you crazy!

 

The reason that I ask these questions (and that you saw from a mile away :lol:) is because I think it relates to the origin of life. Let's imagine the earth before living organisms existed. Take the simplest living organism on earth- a unicellular prokaryote with a single loop of DNA- and we'll assume that the DNA strand has 100 bases (much smaller than any DNA strand on Earth that actually exists).

 

Charles Darwin suggested that simple chemicals in small bodies of water spontaneously formed organic compounds with the aid of energy (such as heat, light, etc.). Using our hypothetical unicellular prokaryote with one DNA strand of a 100 bases (smaller than what actually exists), the odds of a particular lucky combination would be 1,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1. (4 to the 100th)

 

This is not a proof that evolution did not occur, nor is a proof of any specific religion (such as Christianity). However, I think it is illogical to leave such astronomical odds to random chance. Rather, I think it is more logical to assume that there is some intelligent being that started this whole process. So, I've chosen to believe in an imaginary ghost, and you think that I'm crazy. I think that you are confusing the improbable with the impossible. I think that your faith in astronomically unlikely scenarios may be stronger than my faith in God (I can say this because I have doubts). If you categorize craziness by faith in ideas with no proof and plenty of reasons to not believe, then I say you are the crazy one. An intelligent being is more likely than random chance.

 

I'd also love to play poker with you- I'd show you my 9-10-J-Q-K straight flush, and you find it entirely plausible that you'd win.

 

To the bolded, I'll add that the Urey-Miller experiment verified that this was possible. Amino acids (building blocks for proteins) were created using conditions similar to what the early Earth was like.

 

Also, has anyone ever heard of the vitalist theory? In short, it was the belief that humans could not create organic compounds - that a "vital" spark that was needed for such an event to occur - not a biochemical process. This was disproven when Fredrick Wohler synthetically created urea which, as you can imagine, had previously only been produced via kidneys of mammals.

 

Now...WHY he wanted to create THAT compound is beyond me. But he did prove the vitalists incorrect.