I offer two topics. I will zealously defend my thread from any piracy:

 

1. Black and Hispanic voters in California SUPPORTED Proposition 8 in Calfornia by a margin of 75% to 25%, carrying it to a surprise victory. What are the implications, political and cultural, of that vote?

 

2. In scripture we are instructed to obey our leaders, "as they are appointed by God." I have often heard it paraphrased that we are called to "live in this world but not be of this world." To what extent should the Church be equipping its saints with instruction from the pulpit and the Sunday School about how to live in this world, including involvement in politics, government, and business?

I will zealously defend my thread from any piracy:

 

I'm out.............................

 

 

 

Actually, Hearsay, very good questions!!!! Gotta think on these for a few.

Okay, maybe I'm dumber than I thought, but what is Proposition 8?

Okay, maybe I'm dumber than I thought, but what is Proposition 8?

 

Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry in Cali.

Here's good'ol Wikipedia's summary of Prop 8:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)

If my understanding of Prop 8 is correct, I think this could be a good sign for Conservatives in California in the future. I don't foresee it happening anytime soon, but this leads me to believe it is conceivable that they could potentially support a Conservative candidate at some point. If there was any state outside of Mass. that I would have thought this would easily be shot down, it would be California. I am curious though, what were the percentages of Whites that voted in favor of this?

If my understanding of Prop 8 is correct, I think this could be a good sign for Conservatives in California in the future. I don't foresee it happening anytime soon, but this leads me to believe it is conceivable that they could potentially support a Conservative candidate at some point. If there was any state outside of Mass. that I would have thought this would easily be shot down, it would be California. I am curious though, what were the percentages of Whites that voted in favor of this?

 

What I have been reading is that 44% of white voters supported it, and 50% of white voters opposed. For example, Los Angeles County, which is heavily populated by black/Hispanics, was 50.8% in favor of the measure. Lily-white Humboldt County, up north, was 60% opposed.

I have one question about the reversal of prop 8 - will the couples who were married under prop 8 still be recognized as married couples or will they lose that privilege? I know Ellen Degeneres and George Takei both married their partners under prop 8.

I offer two topics. I will zealously defend my thread from any piracy:

 

1. Black and Hispanic voters in California SUPPORTED Proposition 8 in Calfornia by a margin of 75% to 25%, carrying it to a surprise victory. What are the implications, political and cultural, of that vote?

 

2. In scripture we are instructed to obey our leaders, "as they are appointed by God." I have often heard it paraphrased that we are called to "live in this world but not be of this world." To what extent should the Church be equipping its saints with instruction from the pulpit and the Sunday School about how to live in this world, including involvement in politics, government, and business?

 

 

1) Proposition 8 got exactly the result I thought it would. Obama's presidential candidacy brought out black voters in droves. That is a group that is overwhelmingly church-going. They will vote for a ban. Same with hispanics. While economic issues and the Obama candidacy may have driven them to the polls, they are Catholic and coming out of culture that wears its Catholicism on its sleeves (One of the many loveable things about South and Central American culture). It's one of the interesting dilemmas for the Democratic party nationally: they depend on the support of groups that may not want anything to do with their social policies.

 

2) The world of politics is a difficult one. I really believe it might be impossible for me to ever cast a vote for president in this country and be happy about it... at least not in the current environment. Seeing as how it's such a difficult task (and speaking only from the Catholic perspective), the Church should do everything in its power to encourage voters to both research the candidate's policies and pray for guidance. I don't think enough counsel is given on the proper ways to nurture an informed conscience through and election. The faithful can and must vote in accordance with that faith; and it starts from the pulpit.

I have one question about the reversal of prop 8 - will the couples who were married under prop 8 still be recognized as married couples or will they lose that privilege? I know Ellen Degeneres and George Takei both married their partners under prop 8.

 

The California Secretary of State has declared that the marriages will stand. Of course, such a statement might mean nothing: if someone challenges it, it can be brought before a court and they'll decide.

I have one question about the reversal of prop 8 - will the couples who were married under prop 8 still be recognized as married couples or will they lose that privilege? I know Ellen Degeneres and George Takei both married their partners under prop 8.

 

They were actually married under old California Proposition 22, that was a STATUTORY device that was later upheld by the Court.

 

Proposition 8 is a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT that was directed at addressing the very holding of the Prop 22 challenge court decision.

 

My first blush impression is that the 16,000 or so couples who were married from May-October will still be married under laws prohibiting ex post facto constitutional legislation.

2. In scripture we are instructed to obey our leaders, "as they are appointed by God." I have often heard it paraphrased that we are called to "live in this world but not be of this world." To what extent should the Church be equipping its saints with instruction from the pulpit and the Sunday School about how to live in this world, including involvement in politics, government, and business?

 

I think to answer that a few other questions need to be answered first. What is the purpose of our lives according to God? Can this purpose be fulfilled through the forced compulsion of laws?

Prop 8.

 

Many African American families and Latino families have very strong streaks of conservatism running through them despite their propensity to vote primarily for Democratic candidates as of late. I think this is simply an issue where blacks and latinos fall into the conservative category. One thinks of the traditional "black" church and you envision a passionate people worshipping our God and singing hymns of praise (the way worship was meant to be imo).

 

When I was very young, a friend and I were downtown in Nashville following a heavy night of partying. We were getting ready to drive back to school but as we were walking we passed a church we knew to be an African American Baptist church and decided to enter (as a joke sad to say) and see what happened. When we entered, we were literally the only white dudes amongst a sea of African Americans. What started as a stupid joke ended as one of the most meaningful moving experiences I have EVER had in ANY church I have attended. People swarmed to us, greeted us, and welcomed us in as no other church has since that day. To my dying day, I will never forget that wonderful experience.

1) Proposition 8 got exactly the result I thought it would. Obama's presidential candidacy brought out black voters in droves. That is a group that is overwhelmingly church-going. They will vote for a ban. Same with hispanics. While economic issues and the Obama candidacy may have driven them to the polls, they are Catholic and coming out of culture that wears its Catholicism on its sleeves (One of the many loveable things about South and Central American culture). It's one of the interesting dilemmas for the Democratic party nationally: they depend on the support of groups that may not want anything to do with their social policies.

 

You bring up some good points that I completely overlooked. The question I have about that though is, if many of these voters that Obama brought out to the polls for the first time were voting on this issue, did they really know what it was? I say this because I know my first time voting, I was energetic and glad to be able to do my part, but outside of the President, I really didn't have a clue what I was voting for.

1) Proposition 8 got exactly the result I thought it would. Obama's presidential candidacy brought out black voters in droves. That is a group that is overwhelmingly church-going. They will vote for a ban. Same with hispanics. While economic issues and the Obama candidacy may have driven them to the polls, they are Catholic and coming out of culture that wears its Catholicism on its sleeves (One of the many loveable things about South and Central American culture). It's one of the interesting dilemmas for the Democratic party nationally: they depend on the support of groups that may not want anything to do with their social policies.

 

2) The world of politics is a difficult one. I really believe it might be impossible for me to ever cast a vote for president in this country and be happy about it... at least not in the current environment. Seeing as how it's such a difficult task (and speaking only from the Catholic perspective), the Church should do everything in its power to encourage voters to both research the candidate's policies and pray for guidance. I don't think enough counsel is given on the proper ways to nurture an informed conscience through and election. The faithful can and must vote in accordance with that faith; and it starts from the pulpit.

 

Good stuff, Getslow.

 

Your response to Question #1 brings out my intended sub-plot question:

 

Knowing that black and Hispanic voters (as evidenced by that vote on Prop 8) are a church-going segment of our culture and are NOT necessarily in lockstep with Democratic social agendas, what can the Republican Party do to cultivate its relationship with the black and Hispanic communities and break the stranglehold the Democratic party seems to have on those communities?