I agree across the board. However, as I said before, it is the result of the structure and operation of our education system rather than the material. We should offer, and even demand, more advanced performance while simultaneously identifying those who are not at that level and cater curriculum to their abilities.

 

My key point that some have ridiculed me as teachers not wanting to be held accountable.

 

Teachers and schools DO NOT make that decision (the one I bolded). What a child is required to take is made by politicians in Frankfort.

 

We don't have the option to cater that curriculum to their abilities but rather are required to dump them in Algebra II.

Each year I have a couple of students come into my pharmacy,expressing an interest in the profession. I always ask if they have taken Algebra,Chemistry and some advanced biology which would prepare them for physiology in college. Then,just to satisfy my curiosity,I hand the student a simple ratio and proportion problem (I learned them in 6th grade and use the concept at least 5 to 10 times daily at work). In the last 5 years I have had 3 students who had A's in Algebra and advanced math who had NO CLUE how to work the problem....but I did notice that they had great self esteem!

 

Another thing I can tell you is this...a prospective non-professional employee who cannot work a cash register,give change and do a bank deposit IS NOT GOING TO BE HIRED in my store.And a smile to my customers and the ability to talk to people is nice,too!

I need people who can function in the REAL world!

Each year I have a couple of students come into my pharmacy,expressing an interest in the profession. I always ask if they have taken Algebra,Chemistry and some advanced biology which would prepare them for physiology in college. Then,just to satisfy my curiosity,I hand the student a simple ratio and proportion problem (I learned them in 6th grade and use the concept at least 5 to 10 times daily at work). In the last 5 years I have had 3 students who had A's in Algebra and advanced math who had NO CLUE how to work the problem...but I DID notice that they had great self esteem!!!

 

O that is too, too funny.:lol:

I am 100% for pushing and prodding and challenging those students who are ready and need the challenge. G & T and the top students need to be pushed MORE!!!

 

My frustration is we are putting kids on the streets who cannot function in daily mathematics.

 

It drives me nuts that we send kids out who cannot do basic things like making change, balancing checkbooks, reading fractions to make a recipe, etc, etc, and they have spent the past 4 years in math classes that they are not going to use.

 

I have seen students who test at 3rd grade math level and we are enrolling them in algebra II as a junior or senior because that is where the state says the are required to be.

 

I don't see how I have helped that child be ready for life.

 

Trinity alum can say how horrible I am but I feel those children I am FAILING!!!! all for the sake of the state being able to say that they are being taught Algebra II when their math level is 3rd or 4th grade.

 

It is not a question of what class they were in. The question is what they know. The vast majiority of students should graduate from high school with a knowledge of AT LEAST algebra II. A very large number should know simple calculus. If they aren't getting that education then the system is failing them.

It is not a question of what class they were in. The question is what they know. The vast majiority of students should graduate from high school with a knowledge of AT LEAST algebra II. A very large number should know simple calculus. If they aren't getting that education then the system is failing them.

 

I will agree and disagree.

 

I strongly believe the old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

 

We can do all we can do and some will not give an attempt to learn.

 

No different than the mods on here. If a poster continues to break the rules and the mods send all the appropriate PM's about the proper etiquette while posting and the poster never gets it on what they can and cannot post because they want to continue to insult, make personal attacks and do what they want, has BGP and the mods failed that poster?

 

No, absolutely not. And many, many times, that is what happens.

 

I would love to have a dollar for every conversation I have had with a student who says they don't need no stinking education cause they have an uncle Roy who dropped out in the 6th grade and now makes $15 a hour at XY business and they are going to be just like him. And I cannot convince them that a $15 an hour job with no benefits is not what they want.

 

On your first two sentences, the point is, the state requires a certain curriculum be taught in Algebra II. So we put them in that class and are requred to teach them certain things even though they don't know the things they will need to know to navigate through life.

While my kids did have one semester each in high school where they learned "life skills", there's no way I would say that class was more important than the Algebra, Geometry, etc classes they received. First, if a child can't add and subtract, teaching budgeting and balancing a check book are not going to be any more effective than making sure those kids have those basic skills in the first place.

 

One problem I see (as one of the fringes) is that there's little emphasis on ensuring that kids in the earliest stages of their education are prepared to move on.

 

When I was starting school, we didn't have to go to kindergarten, so I started the first grade without ever having been in pre-school or kindergarten. I could count to 100 and read. My parents taught me that. These days, with Headstart, other Pre-K programs, Kindergarten, etc, there should be no reason a kid starts first grade without the most rudimentary of basic skills. Yet, I hear of this all the time. Kids get to first grade and can't even write their names or count, which kind of hinders their transition and progress in first grade, wouldn't you say?

 

Although I could read in first grade, in second grade, my teacher noticed that I could read faster than any other student, but I had no idea afterward what I had read. I was put in an afterschool reading comprehension program at the school. I caught up pretty quickly after learning to comprehend what I was reading as I was reading it. Yet today, kids get passed onto upper grades without even being able to meet the minimal level of reading skills?

 

It seems to me that too much emphasis is put on components individually in the early years of education, and not enough put on interdependent concepts (reading/comprehension/writing, for instance).

 

There is nothing but a mountain to overcome in the later years of education if the foundation isn't laid firmly in the earliest years of the elementary education. These are the years where the child's mind is the most open to instruction, and the easiest point to identify basic challenges a child many need extra help in overcoming. And, I think the time in a child's life where the challenges can be corrected most quickly.

 

I'm not saying elementary teachers are failing their students, but I have to believe that we need to start there to improve the future of education.

 

Doing away with certain "core content" that used to be taught in elementary school is a problem as well. And I think it applies to all education. My daughter struggled mightily with spelling, sentence structure, etc. No phonics taught anymore, no diagramming sentences to understand the function of written communication. Sure, no one likes it, and parents probably will balk at the extra time it adds to homework. But, many of these are the same parents who will push their kids to practice harder in sports to get better. Go figure. The same principles apply in stengthening the mind as do to strengthening athletic skills.

While my kids did have one semester each in high school where they learned "life skills", there's no way I would say that class was more important than the Algebra, Geometry, etc classes they received. First, if a child can't add and subtract, teaching budgeting and balancing a check book are not going to be any more effective than making sure those kids have those basic skills in the first place.

 

One problem I see (as one of the fringes) is that there's little emphasis on ensuring that kids in the earliest stages of their education are prepared to move on.

 

When I was starting school, we didn't have to go to kindergarten, so I started the first grade without ever having been in pre-school or kindergarten. I could count to 100 and read. My parents taught me that. These days, with Headstart, other Pre-K programs, Kindergarten, etc, there should be no reason a kid starts first grade without the most rudimentary of basic skills. Yet, I hear of this all the time. Kids get to first grade and can't even write their names or count, which kind of hinders their transition and progress in first grade, wouldn't you say?

 

Although I could read in first grade, in second grade, my teacher noticed that I could read faster than any other student, but I had no idea afterward what I had read. I was put in an afterschool reading comprehension program at the school. I caught up pretty quickly after learning to comprehend what I was reading as I was reading it. Yet today, kids get passed onto upper grades without even being able to meet the minimal level of reading skills?

 

It seems to me that too much emphasis is put on components individually in the early years of education, and not enough put on interdependent concepts (reading/comprehension/writing, for instance).

 

There is nothing but a mountain to overcome in the later years of education if the foundation isn't laid firmly in the earliest years of the elementary education. These are the years where the child's mind is the most open to instruction, and the easiest point to identify basic challenges a child many need extra help in overcoming. And, I think the time in a child's life where the challenges can be corrected most quickly.

 

I'm not saying elementary teachers are failing their students, but I have to believe that we need to start there to improve the future of education.

 

Doing away with certain "core content" that used to be taught in elementary school is a problem as well. And I think it applies to all education. My daughter struggled mightily with spelling, sentence structure, etc. No phonics taught anymore, no diagramming sentences to understand the function of written communication. Sure, no one likes it, and parents probably will balk at the extra time it adds to homework. But, many of these are the same parents who will push their kids to practice harder in sports to get better. Go figure. The same principles apply in stengthening the mind as do to strengthening athletic skills.

 

And let's not lay this all at the feet of the teachers.

 

My son brought home work in Phonics from his 2nd grade class. I could not help him as it was some new way to sound out letter combinations that I had never seen.

 

I made the point to the elementary principal who is a good friend of mine, if I couldn't help him, I wonder what is going on in the homes of kids without parents who have a good education.

 

Simply, they are not able to get their homework done.

 

If a parent does not force their child to do the homework at home, the kid won't learn.

 

I am familiar with a family who did the homework for their elementary age child because they would rather do it than have to fight and argue with their 6 year old (wonder what that 6 year old is going to be like at 16 since they rule the roost already?) about doing their homework.

And let's not lay this all at the feet of the teachers.

 

My son brought home work in Phonics from his 2nd grade class. I could not help him as it was some new way to sound out letter combinations that I had never seen.

 

I made the point to the elementary principal who is a good friend of mine, if I couldn't help him, I wonder what is going on in the homes of kids without parents who have a good education.

 

Simply, they are not able to get their homework done.

 

If a parent does not force their child to do the homework at home, the kid won't learn.

 

I am familiar with a family who did the homework for their elementary age child because they would rather do it than have to fight and argue with their 6 year old (wonder what that 6 year old is going to be like at 16 since they rule the roost already?) about doing their homework.

 

 

I didn't lay anything at the feet of the teachers. I said that we need to rethink our approach to elementary education. And, I mentioned that parents would balk at the extra amount of time it would take to do homework.

 

I've definitely had my share of "over my head" moments in helping my kids with homework. But, working together, we managed to figure it out. Any parent who decides to quit or not help at all on the basis that it is above their head is teaching their kid to give up. Plain and simple. Sometimes, we learn together.

It is not a question of what class they were in. The question is what they know. The vast majiority of students should graduate from high school with a knowledge of AT LEAST algebra II. A very large number should know simple calculus. If they aren't getting that education then the system is failing them.

 

Why do you believe Algebra II and maybe calculus are needed? I would argue that most people will never use either of them after they are finished with the class. Those who are headed to college to study sceince, engineering or some other discipline of this nature, yes they need these classes, those who are headed in other directions, no.

Why do you believe Algebra II and maybe calculus are needed? I would argue that most people will never use either of them after they are finished with the class. Those who are headed to college to study sceince, engineering or some other discipline of this nature, yes they need these classes, those who are headed in other directions, no.

 

Those classes also teach thinking skills and mental discipline. Those skills are important for everyone.

Those classes also teach thinking skills and mental discipline. Those skills are important for everyone.

 

I agree, but to a student who will never use it after they complete the class, they really don't care. I had many voca students in my classes, which they only took because it was required, all many wanted was a D- to pass the class and move on. I know that is not what we want, but it is the truth. We need to be educating these people to be the best at what they want to be and that means giving them classes that are related to their future vocation.

 

We need to be sure they are ready to work and business savy, 2 extra years of math they most likely will not use, will not do that. People who are ready to enter the workforce and understand how it works are needed just as much as college graduates. We need some of both.