Why not and what happens if a player is injured during practice?

 

What I meant by my comment is that I do not think a school should have to hire a FT athletic trainer meaning the school system should not have to pay for their salary. A school could have a full time athletic trainer for less than $10,000 a year if they decide to contract out with a clinic to have an athletic trainer cover their sports. I know for the most part in NKY that the majority of high schools use a clinical outreach athletic trainer to cover their sporting events and I would have to say that the athletic trainer has been the same athletic trainer for many years. If the service someone provides is good then the school will keep the company and the athletic trainer.

What I meant by my comment is that I do not think a school should have to hire a FT athletic trainer meaning the school system should not have to pay for their salary. A school could have a full time athletic trainer for less than $10,000 a year if they decide to contract out with a clinic to have an athletic trainer cover their sports. I know for the most part in NKY that the majority of high schools use a clinical outreach athletic trainer to cover their sporting events and I would have to say that the athletic trainer has been the same athletic trainer for many years. If the service someone provides is good then the school will keep the company and the athletic trainer.

 

I don't disagree as long as the athletic trainer is on site not just for games, but for practices as well. If they can't come to terms with a clinic that will contract these services with them and providing some type of coverage for practices and games then the school should be required to hire an athletic trainer themselves. It's about the health and well being of the student athletes and if it means hiring a few less assistant coaches or not getting new unis and warm-ups every year then so be it.

 

I also know for a fact that a vast majority of schools in Kentucky do not have the services of an athletic trainer on a daily basis. IMVHO that's criminal neglegence on the part of the schools that have no coverage.

 

What would you do if the school is in a rural area with no clinic near by or are unable to contract with a clinic for these services?

Edited June 24, 200818 yr by All Tell

For the most part each school pays a small fee to the company that is providing the service (athletic trainer). The high school does not pay any of the athletic trainer's salary but it is "understood" that the student athlete goes to their respective company for rehab.

 

Getting back on the subject. Like you said a PT can not cover a sporting event unless they are PT. ALOT of people think they can. I don't think alot of people realize what exactly an athletic trainer does and what type of education they have.

 

Not sure what you mean by this and maybe it just needs to be clarified. If my child is injured during a game and the trainer looks at it makes an onsite evaluation, are you saying that an athlete then "has" to go to that trainers facility for medical attention and rehab? I certainly hope that I can then take my child to the Dr. of "our" choice not the schools.

Not sure what you mean by this and maybe it just needs to be clarified. If my child is injured during a game and the trainer looks at it makes an onsite evaluation, are you saying that an athlete then "has" to go to that trainers facility for medical attention and rehab? I certainly hope that I can then take my child to the Dr. of "our" choice not the schools.

 

Rehab and doctor are 2 totally different things. Most companies charge a minimal price to contract an athletic trainer to a high school (less than $10K like I said in a previous post). To make up the difference for salary most of the time the athlete will goto the clinic for physical therapy (most athletic trainers make between $27 - 40K a year). Most of the time an athletic trainer will suggest a doctor(s) to a parent. I know that is how it happens out our high school. No one can force a parent to send their child to their respective clinic. Maybe understood is not the right word but for the most part this is a common practice.

I don't disagree as long as the athletic trainer is on site not just for games, but for practices as well. If they can't come to terms with a clinic that will contract these services with them and providing some type of coverage for practices and games then the school should be required to hire an athletic trainer themselves. It's about the health and well being of the student athletes and if it means hiring a few less assistant coaches or not getting new unis and warm-ups every year then so be it.

 

I also know for a fact that a vast majority of schools in Kentucky do not have the services of an athletic trainer on a daily basis. IMVHO that's criminal neglegence on the part of the schools that have no coverage.

 

What would you do if the school is in a rural area with no clinic near by or are unable to contract with a clinic for these services?

 

I agree regarding the neglegence. I have been to schools that are very close to NKY and that play football that have no athletic trainer on site. Those schools are just waiting for a lawsuit IMO.

 

EEK good question about the rural area. I am not too sure what I would do. I guess then you would have to hire an athletic trainer through the school system. I am not against hiring an athletic trainer through the school system all I am saying is it cheaper to contract one out through a company. I have seen it work at many schools throughout the country. In one of my previous I also said it is a huge liability not to have an athletic trainer.

 

I think KHSAA needs to make a rule that states that if you have football (some people might throw soccer in here as well) and you want to have a HOME football game you must have an athletic trainer on site for all games (Varsity, JV, Freshman). This is just my opinion. I also think if KHSAA does not do something to this effect they are opening themselves up for a lawsuit as well. I know there are some schools like you say that are not close to anything and it would be very difficult to hire an athletic trainer but I have seen it done in other states. It is possibly to do you just have to be creative to make it happen.

There does not need to be a rule that all schools have athletic trainers. It would be nice, but you would be handicapping some schools. All home teams should have an ambulance at all football games. Several teams in my area have doctors on the sidelines for every game. You would be forcing some schools to abandon the doctor to pay for an athletic trainer. That does not make since to me. I would prefer to have an ambulance, an athletic trainer, and a doctor, but I can see many schools not being able to do that.

There does not need to be a rule that all schools have athletic trainers. It would be nice, but you would be handicapping some schools. All home teams should have an ambulance at all football games. Several teams in my area have doctors on the sidelines for every game. You would be forcing some schools to abandon the doctor to pay for an athletic trainer. That does not make since to me. I would prefer to have an ambulance, an athletic trainer, and a doctor, but I can see many schools not being able to do that.

 

Before making the statement that it's an either/or with doctors you need to know that an overwhelming majority of physicians that are on the sidelines for football games are volunteers. How would paying an athletic trainer affect their status? Having an ambulance is nice BUT they are not going to come out on the field for every down player nor are they going to check players on the sidelines. They are going to transport when needed and with luck that will only happen a few times a year, if at all. And again from what I know of some communities the Fire Department comes to games and provide the ambulance at no charge to the school. I know that in Jefferson County few if any schools have ambulances at every game because the cost is staggering, something like $200.00 per hour.

 

And you seem to be zeroed in on games. What happens during practices? Coaches for the most part do not have the training to deal with injuries nor do they have the time during practice to do it. I wouldn't want an athletic trainer running a football practice yet many seem to think it's acceptable to let a coach do an athletic trainers job. Think about it this way. A school with a V, JV and Frosh football team will play about 30 football games a year, about half of those at home. In that same time span how many practices will they have? Lets say 4 practices per game so 40 V/JV practices and 40 frosh practices just during the season. How many pre-season practices (when heat is a factor)? 20 or 30 more per team? I haven't even tried to consider post-season games and practices. So a team will have almost 8 times the number of practices as they will games and 8 times the injury exposure. How does it make any sense at all to see having a doctor, an athletic trainer or whatever on the sidelines for games as an acceptable substitute for having a trained sports medicine practitioner on site for practices AND games everyday? And what about the players on other teams? Shouldn't they have someone available to them in the event they are injured? How many schools do you know that have doctors and/or ambulances on the sidelines for Soccer games?

 

I've got to be honest, if my school had to choose between having a doctor on the sidelines on Friday night during football season and having an athletic trainer there every day before during and after football season and for all sports I know which one I would choose. But I sincerely doubt that most schools would have to make that choice if they decided to pay for an athletic trainer.

 

FYI there is a KHSAA guideline that says all school need to have a physician on the sidelines for all home varsity football games. If you know of any that don't then they are in violation of policy and really setting themselves up for legal troubles WHEN (not if) one of their football players gets hurt.

It was my understanding that all schools were to have an ambulance at all home games. This may not be a rule, but I thought it was. I know several schools that contract a local private ambulance service to provide coverage, and that costs them a decent amount of money.

 

I understand your point about having someone available for the whole week, varsity game, JV game, freshmen game, and practice. And, I don't disagree with that. I just don't think a law/rule is necessary.

 

I know that Raceland used to have a contract with a local orthopedic company that provided trainers for all games and followed up with all injuries and referred those in need to a appropriate physician. But, they never provided a trainer for practice. This company still does not provide trainers for practice. Raceland no longer has that contract. This company is the only company close to North-Eastern Kentucky that I am aware of that provides trainer for sporting events, and they are located in Huntington, WV.

 

For teams in my are to have an athletic trainer, they either have to hire the above company, which does not provide the needed coverage, or they have to hire a trainer to their staff. I only know of one school that has sports trainers on staff, in my area, and they are also health and PE teachers.

 

What I am asking is, what are schools going to do that don't have such a company in their area? We are in an urban area if you will, with Ashland, and Huntington, WV close and don't have the resources to provide trainers. What about counties that do not have any such trainers close? How would a rule affect them?

When my son was hurt in a game, the Athletic Trainer was there, even though it was an originally unscheduled, JV Away game. I don't recall seeing any aid personnel from the home team staff there...but I admit I wasn't paying too much attention to finding out who was whom and what they did. The next season, when my son returned to play, the Athletic Trainer was the one who noticed the difficulty my son was having, and knew why. He knew that, because he knew the injury my son had suffered the previous year. If there were no AT on staff, or only one at home games, my son would likely never have benefitted from further rehab, specific to his injury and athletics.

 

Give me an AT on staff any day.

Rehab and doctor are 2 totally different things. Most companies charge a minimal price to contract an athletic trainer to a high school (less than $10K like I said in a previous post). To make up the difference for salary most of the time the athlete will goto the clinic for physical therapy (most athletic trainers make between $27 - 40K a year). Most of the time an athletic trainer will suggest a doctor(s) to a parent. I know that is how it happens out our high school. No one can force a parent to send their child to their respective clinic. Maybe understood is not the right word but for the most part this is a common practice.

 

Aren't the Dr.'s that these trainers associated with the ones they are suggesting, and don't you usually attend the PT that YOUR Dr. suggests?

Aren't the Dr.'s that these trainers associated with the ones they are suggesting, and don't you usually attend the PT that YOUR Dr. suggests?

 

They can make a suggestion but that does not mean you have to go to that certain physical therapy clinic. Plus in NKY (this is the area I have the most association with) the only people who have an affiliation to a group of doctors is the St. E's group and maybe St. Luke's but I am not too sure who their (St. Luke's) orthos are. That is the only group I can think of that has any affilation to a certain group of doctors.

 

I forgot to mention that most athletic trainer's refer their athlete to a specific doctor(s) because they know they doctor and they know they will get in quickly and they don't have to wait for a couple of days.

Before making the statement that it's an either/or with doctors you need to know that an overwhelming majority of physicians that are on the sidelines for football games are volunteers. How would paying an athletic trainer affect their status? Having an ambulance is nice BUT they are not going to come out on the field for every down player nor are they going to check players on the sidelines. They are going to transport when needed and with luck that will only happen a few times a year, if at all. And again from what I know of some communities the Fire Department comes to games and provide the ambulance at no charge to the school. I know that in Jefferson County few if any schools have ambulances at every game because the cost is staggering, something like $200.00 per hour.

 

And you seem to be zeroed in on games. What happens during practices? Coaches for the most part do not have the training to deal with injuries nor do they have the time during practice to do it. I wouldn't want an athletic trainer running a football practice yet many seem to think it's acceptable to let a coach do an athletic trainers job. Think about it this way. A school with a V, JV and Frosh football team will play about 30 football games a year, about half of those at home. In that same time span how many practices will they have? Lets say 4 practices per game so 40 V/JV practices and 40 frosh practices just during the season. How many pre-season practices (when heat is a factor)? 20 or 30 more per team? I haven't even tried to consider post-season games and practices. So a team will have almost 8 times the number of practices as they will games and 8 times the injury exposure. How does it make any sense at all to see having a doctor, an athletic trainer or whatever on the sidelines for games as an acceptable substitute for having a trained sports medicine practitioner on site for practices AND games everyday? And what about the players on other teams? Shouldn't they have someone available to them in the event they are injured? How many schools do you know that have doctors and/or ambulances on the sidelines for Soccer games?

 

I've got to be honest, if my school had to choose between having a doctor on the sidelines on Friday night during football season and having an athletic trainer there every day before during and after football season and for all sports I know which one I would choose. But I sincerely doubt that most schools would have to make that choice if they decided to pay for an athletic trainer.

 

FYI there is a KHSAA guideline that says all school need to have a physician on the sidelines for all home varsity football games. If you know of any that don't then they are in violation of policy and really setting themselves up for legal troubles WHEN (not if) one of their football players gets hurt.

 

All Tell, I just wanted you to know that I agree with every post you have made in this thread. :thumb: (Get us outside the P/R forum, and we might agree on most things!)

 

I particularly agree that football (my school does not have soccer) should have a certified athletic trainer on duty at all practices and games. I'm not sure how my school would handle the expense - the added fuel expenses are weighing us down at the moment, but, as All Tell said, something else should have to give, IMO.

They can make a suggestion but that does not mean you have to go to that certain physical therapy clinic. Plus in NKY (this is the area I have the most association with) the only people who have an affiliation to a group of doctors is the St. E's group and maybe St. Luke's but I am not too sure who their (St. Luke's) orthos are. That is the only group I can think of that has any affilation to a certain group of doctors.

 

I forgot to mention that most athletic trainer's refer their athlete to a specific doctor(s) because they know they doctor and they know they will get in quickly and they don't have to wait for a couple of days.

 

 

Haven't had a big issue with the trainers or the Dr.'s that the trainer represented or reccommended, but have gone to a different Dr. after years of PT and trying to solve a problem injury and after switching to the new Dr. the problem injury was solved within 6 months.

 

I think what I am trying to say is, if the trainer, that is associated with the school, and their "group of dr.'s" aren't giving you the answers or solving the problem, please get a second opinion. And don't hesitate. Many times, time is of the essence with injuries. You are not obligated to the trainers Dr."s just because they saw injury and they can get you a next day appointment. After an injury, most orthopaedic surgeons will get you in the next day.

They can make a suggestion but that does not mean you have to go to that certain physical therapy clinic. Plus in NKY (this is the area I have the most association with) the only people who have an affiliation to a group of doctors is the St. E's group and maybe St. Luke's but I am not too sure who their (St. Luke's) orthos are. That is the only group I can think of that has any affilation to a certain group of doctors.

 

I forgot to mention that most athletic trainer's refer their athlete to a specific doctor(s) because they know they doctor and they know they will get in quickly and they don't have to wait for a couple of days.

 

It's also great for business.

It's also great for business.

 

That is true but it necessarily doesn't mean that the athletic trainer will get the athlete back to the rehab clinic. IF the athlete & parent like the doctor and like the care that he or she received I can't see why they wouldn't goto the athletic trainer's PT clinic. Alot of time for a clinical outreach athletic trainer alot of it is customer service.