Final.

This game was tough to sit through. Have you ever heard someone say "Why the referees could throw a flag on every play in a football game if they really wanted to look for one!" Well I have heard it and now I have seen it. For all the folks from Belfry who made their way to Grayson for the game, guess what, we have had that crew probably 4 times this year and they have thrown flags like that in all games. I find it funny that usually the flags cause one side or other to feel like they are getting the shaft but this group has a way of controlling a game with yellow (now slightly sort of brown) flags that causes both groups of fans to first get frustrated and then work their way into a bit of comic relief (like...hey we just ran two plays in a row with no flag! Reply...wait both teams haven't made it back to the huddle yet...oh no, you're right there's another unsportsmanlike!) to the point of feeling like you are being held hostage and just begging to please let this game get over without anymore penalties. I watched fans from East and Belfy conversing about these very things.

 

This is not a personal slam against any of the officials...they are good,friendly guys; however, they like to throw flags. Of all the penalties that were called I only saw one that I could say now that was a bad call. (Belfry got called on an illegal block on a punt return that was a poor call and cost them a score.) The others were unsportsmanlike calls on both teams (talking smack maybe?), motion penalties as the ball is being snapped? holding calls and illegal blocks well away from any action that the normal fan would be watching. In other words you can't argue with the calls cause nobody sees them.

 

Belfry is a fine team and won going away. The officiating was equally scrutiness for both teams and probably more difficult on Belfry. This is not a post complaining about the officials affecting the outcome of the game. It is a post saying that the officials sucked the life out of the game.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

Way to go Pirates!!!!!

This game was tough to sit through. Have you ever heard someone say "Why the referees could throw a flag on every play in a football game if they really wanted to look for one!" Well I have heard it and now I have seen it. For all the folks from Belfry who made their way to Grayson for the game, guess what, we have had that crew probably 4 times this year and they have thrown flags like that in all games. I find it funny that usually the flags cause one side or other to feel like they are getting the shaft but this group has a way of controlling a game with yellow (now slightly sort of brown) flags that causes both groups of fans to first get frustrated and then work their way into a bit of comic relief (like...hey we just ran two plays in a row with no flag! Reply...wait both teams haven't made it back to the huddle yet...oh no, you're right there's another unsportsmanlike!) to the point of feeling like you are being held hostage and just begging to please let this game get over without anymore penalties. I watched fans from East and Belfy conversing about these very things.

 

This is not a personal slam against any of the officials...they are good,friendly guys; however, they like to throw flags. Of all the penalties that were called I only saw one that I could say now that was a bad call. (Belfry got called on an illegal block on a punt return that was a poor call and cost them a score.) The others were unsportsmanlike calls on both teams (talking smack maybe?), motion penalties as the ball is being snapped? holding calls and illegal blocks well away from any action that the normal fan would be watching. In other words you can't argue with the calls cause nobody sees them.

 

Belfry is a fine team and won going away. The officiating was equally scrutiness for both teams and probably more difficult on Belfry. This is not a post complaining about the officials affecting the outcome of the game. It is a post saying that the officials sucked the life out of the game.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

 

 

 

Are you saying that the officials should "turn their heads" because of the score of the game? Did you ever think that maybe the officials were doing their best to make sure that no one got ejected from a game full of personal fouls and unsportsmanlikes. Sitting in the stands is different from being on the field, you can not hear the things coming out of their mouths. Fans tend to watch the ball thus not seeing some penalties and I think this may be a case of just that. As far as you saying that you have had this crew 4 times this year, well trust me when I say that you are wrong. You may have had an official off of that crew a couple times but you haven't had the crew. It doesn't matter what the score is or how bad you want the game to end, the officials are independent contracter sent to do a job. I know the guys who were there and they are a veteran bunch of good officials. Just because you don't see a penalty from the stands does not mean that it wasn't there.

 

I can guarantee one thing that the officials don't "like" to throw flags. I'm sure they would love to go through a game a not throw one single flag but that wishful thinking of having a flagless game is not going to keep them from doing their job. No official likes to throw flags, at least none that I know. The officials were working very hard to make sure that the personal fouls and unsportsmanlikes did not lead to an ejection.

This game was tough to sit through. Have you ever heard someone say "Why the referees could throw a flag on every play in a football game if they really wanted to look for one!" Well I have heard it and now I have seen it. For all the folks from Belfry who made their way to Grayson for the game, guess what, we have had that crew probably 4 times this year and they have thrown flags like that in all games. I find it funny that usually the flags cause one side or other to feel like they are getting the shaft but this group has a way of controlling a game with yellow (now slightly sort of brown) flags that causes both groups of fans to first get frustrated and then work their way into a bit of comic relief (like...hey we just ran two plays in a row with no flag! Reply...wait both teams haven't made it back to the huddle yet...oh no, you're right there's another unsportsmanlike!) to the point of feeling like you are being held hostage and just begging to please let this game get over without anymore penalties. I watched fans from East and Belfy conversing about these very things.

 

This is not a personal slam against any of the officials...they are good,friendly guys; however, they like to throw flags. Of all the penalties that were called I only saw one that I could say now that was a bad call. (Belfry got called on an illegal block on a punt return that was a poor call and cost them a score.) The others were unsportsmanlike calls on both teams (talking smack maybe?), motion penalties as the ball is being snapped? holding calls and illegal blocks well away from any action that the normal fan would be watching. In other words you can't argue with the calls cause nobody sees them.

 

Belfry is a fine team and won going away. The officiating was equally scrutiness for both teams and probably more difficult on Belfry. This is not a post complaining about the officials affecting the outcome of the game. It is a post saying that the officials sucked the life out of the game.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

 

:laugh: I'm sorry. I'm not laughing at your post. I just think it's funny when you read your post and then read your screen name!

Are you saying that the officials should "turn their heads" because of the score of the game? ......QUOTE]

 

As someone who just wtached this game in person, what the previous poster said was actually very accurate. Half of the flags thrown tonight should have never been thrown as either they A) Pertained absolutely nothing to the result of the play B) Were Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties that could have easily been addressed by the officials taking the time to talk to the captains and/or coaches C) Were minor plays that had no bearing (ie block in the back called on an INT return for a TD when the the player was disengaging his block with the ballcarrier ten yards past him)

 

 

I have been watching football for many years and tend to think I have a pretty good knowledge of the game, what I saw tonight was one of the most unusual displays of officiating I have ever seen. Belfry had 3 touchdowns called back, all of which from calls that were controversial at best. I also felt that East Carter got the short end of the stick at times as well. But what really bothered me wasa the lack of consistency in the calls made. The officials would call a tick-tack penalty on one play, then miss a blatant hold the very next, the officials would call 5 or 6 consecutive false starts or offsides, then miss the Center doing an illegal snap.

 

As mentioned, it did become a source of comedy and in no way did I feel that oen team benefitted more than the other, it was equally bad.

 

Sorry to get off on tangent about the officiating, but the thing I ahd planned on saying when I got on here until I saw it already posted was, "Do they always call that many penalties at East Carter?"

Now for the the game:

 

I have now said it three times this year following a Belfry game (the other being Magoffin and Pike Central), but this one takes the cake, very unusual game. As many expected Belfry was on cruise control and played a very conservative gameplan playiong mostly base defense and limtiing their number of plays. The game opened with Belfry quickly forcing a 3 and out and returning the punt to the Raider 30, then on the second play Belfry fumbled and didn't see the ball for a loooong time after that.

 

East Carter drove the ball pretty much the rest of the quarter thansk to some costly penalties, a fake punt, and a busted coverage. Eventually the Raiders would miss a FG attempt giving the ball to Belfry who then proceeded to march the ball down field on their own time consuming drive before scoring the games first points early in the second quarter. Belfry would once again force a punt, which would actually be returned for a TD, but a penalty away from the play negated that score. Belfry then scored very quickly pushign the amrgin to 14-0. Then came another looong East Carter drive aided once again by penalties and 4th Down conversions that eventually capped off with a 4th and Goal TD pass. The ensuing kick would eb fielded by Thomas Varney on the bounce, and he would dash his way for the long TD return to stretch the lead to 21-7 at the half.

 

Usually Belfry dominates the Time of Posession, but in the first half I am willing to bet EC had the ball considerably more than twice that of Belfry.

 

The second half would just get uglier and more unorthodox than ever... it featured an INT return for a TD being called back, a muffed punt recovered by East Carter (had the played fielded it cleanly it was goign to be another kick return for a TD as he had the entire field open), the ugliest scoring drive I have ever seen in which Belfry marched 95 yards, but both teams probably accumulated 50 yards of penalties each during the drive, ultimately culminating with the Pirates holding a commanding 35-7 lead going into the 4th when their first strinegrs were pulled.

 

Truthfully, Belfry looked rough tonight, but to be honest it's hard to really say that because with the flow of the game, neither team could really line up and play true football. May never saw a snap on defense, Dotson saw limited minutes, starting OL Casey Whetstone did not play, all in all Belfry came out without anyone getting hurt it appeared, they took care of business, and did all of this while playing probably their most conservative game of the year.

 

As the always knowledgable BGP posters stated, East Carter was a very solid tackling team, they did a fairly good job of keeping Belfry's backs in check. The Carroll kid accounted for probably 95% of their offense and showed good speed once he could find a crease.

 

Odd game.. just one of those that you take the W.. and immediately turn your focus to next week.

The officiating crew made a real mess of this game, and that is something I don't think I have ever said before. Officials should never play that big of a role in the game, they need to learn to use some discretion. Like Forest Gump, thats all I have to say about that.

 

As far as the game, there's not much I can add to what flyin'theflag and EKUalum05 have posted. Glad this one is over, looking on to next week.

Something I want to hit on real quick after tonight:

 

Thomas Varney may be the most explosive Sophomore I have seen at Belfry. I am not saying he is goign to be a dominant runner like Doug, but I do think he ahs the ptential to be one of the most memorable backs Belfry has had. This kid has proven himself to be a gamebreaker in so many facets:

- He is a dangerous runner who hits the hole hard and cuts on a dime.

- He may be Belfry's most consistent receiver.

-He has proven himself to be one of the better returners in the state on both punts and kickoffs.

-Defensively he has turned into an excellent coverage safety, he makes numerous hard hits every game, he has saved quite a few touchdowns with his open field tackling.

-He is Belfry's primary gunner on both Kickoff and Punt Coverage.

-He has emerged as Belfry's punter during May's injury and is doing an adequate job.

- Last year he was a Quarterback, and is probably the second most accurate QB on Belfry's team.

 

Beofre the seaosn all you heard was "We don't have that big play potential or theat gamebreakign speed"... with Varney and Timmy Lovern you have that for the next few years. Once these kids mature more physically and get stronger in the gym, they will be one special duo to watch.

Are you saying that the officials should "turn their heads" because of the score of the game? ......QUOTE]

 

As someone who just wtached this game in person, what the previous poster said was actually very accurate. Half of the flags thrown tonight should have never been thrown as either they A) Pertained absolutely nothing to the result of the play B) Were Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties that could have easily been addressed by the officials taking the time to talk to the captains and/or coaches C) Were minor plays that had no bearing (ie block in the back called on an INT return for a TD when the the player was disengaging his block with the ballcarrier ten yards past him)

 

 

I have been watching football for many years and tend to think I have a pretty good knowledge of the game, what I saw tonight was one of the most unusual displays of officiating I have ever seen. Belfry had 3 touchdowns called back, all of which from calls that were controversial at best. I also felt that East Carter got the short end of the stick at times as well. But what really bothered me wasa the lack of consistency in the calls made. The officials would call a tick-tack penalty on one play, then miss a blatant hold the very next, the officials would call 5 or 6 consecutive false starts or offsides, then miss the Center doing an illegal snap.

 

As mentioned, it did become a source of comedy and in no way did I feel that oen team benefitted more than the other, it was equally bad.

 

Sorry to get off on tangent about the officiating, but the thing I ahd planned on saying when I got on here until I saw it already posted was, "Do they always call that many penalties at East Carter?"

 

 

I am going to say this about the officiating. I too was at the game and was at field level. The officials DID talk to both head coaches and DID talk to both captains for both teams about their conduct. They DID not hede the warning and continued to act unruly, whether it be with contact or with their mouths(which can not be heard in the stands). Many people believe that they are knowledgable of the game and that they made be but that does not mean the know officiating by any stretch of the imagination. First off, a block in the back is a safety call and will be called whether it had an effect on the play or not. To the average football fan it can appear that officials are being inconsistent with holding calls when in fact they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. The crew tonight was consistent with the holding that affected the play. Officials are taught preventive officiating, meaning that if a hold does not effect the play or is not at the point of attack then it is better to talk to the players than to have a holding call 20 yds away from the point of attack. Believe it or not, there was a lot of preventive officiating going on during that game. As far as the false starts, where they not there? If four officials who are keying on the line of scrimmage and the ball being snapped missed an illegal snap and you saw it from the stands, I would love to have your vision.

I'm not saying that the officials were perfect because there has never been a "perfect" officiated game but just because there were a lot of penalties does not mean that the officiating was bad. Being up in the stands and being on the field is too totally different things. You cannot hear what the players are saying nor can you hear what the officials are saying to the players, it's a different world. If the officials hadn't have had those personal fouls and unsportsmanlike penalties, you yourself may be sitting here saying............... "Well, if the officials would have flagged it when it started then we wouldn't have 4 of our players sitting out because of ejections". I am pleased with the officials because there wasn't any ejections and it very easily could have escalated to a far worst situation. They did a very good job of talking to the players after the play and getting into the congestion to make the players aware of their presence. People don't realize these things, they see penalty flags and immediately start degrading the officials. Being knowledgable in football does not mean that you are knowledgable in officiating. You are however entitled to your opinion but I am just trying to enlighten you on the officials point of view.

 

And just because you don't see it does not mean that something didn't happen.

 

I thought they did a fine job and I know the film will back me up.:thumb:

 

 

I am going to say this about the officiating. I too was at the game and was at field level. ....

 

There is no need to continue to bring up the officiating in a game that is said and done and was never in doubt, so on my end I will let it rest after this post. I appreciate your viewpoint, and agree with alot you say about the fact that one cannot see everything from the stands, but I do have officiating experience on the high school level (not with football I will include, so take what I say as you wish).

 

Not once did I say it was "bad" officiating, I said it was "unusual", which it was as I have never seen a game with so many flags. I have been watching Belfry temas for many years, never once have I seen a Phillip Haywood coached team penalized for personal fould ans unsportsmanlike conducts as they were tonight.

 

I said it was "controversial", nearly everyone who attended the game has echoed sentiments that the officiating was different than your typical high school game, so I believe controversial fits.

 

I said it was "inconsistent", which I stand by. When you watch the film pay special attention to Belfry's defensive lineman #8 Phillip Hickman on all the pass plays in which the QB rolls out and Hickman purues. Then take note of the holding calls made against East Carter on similar pass plays when the call is made at the center of the line, while the play is outside of the tackles. Additionally, you bring up the issue of "Safety Calls" and noted how that they must be called whether it has direct effect on the play or not. On Belfry's kickoff return for a Touchdown by #9 Thomas Varney pay special attention to the blatant tripping attempt in the middle of the field. Luckily for everyone, Varney was a step too fast for the kid or else serious injury could have resulted. Maybe I missed it watching the end of the play, but at no point did an official consult the kid who attempted the trip.

 

Another point I would like to hit on the Unsportsmanlike penalties and personal fouls. Did it ever occur to you unusual that at no point tonight offsetting penalties were called? If both teams were saying thigns we could not hear, did they have the common courtesy to allow each other to take their turns saying it? East Carter would trash talk one series, Belfry the next? It is well known that with personal fouls it typically is the person who retalliates that gets the flag, but after it occurs so many times wouldn't the official be observant enough to catch the initial act? It seems cleaning up the rough play was apoint of emphasis throughout this game, why were they not noting the initial contact? It also strikes me as odd, that if this game was so emotionally charged and out of hand on the field with the number of personal fouls called, then how did it come to pass that at no point a player from either team attempted to punch/strike the other?

 

I agree that penalties were not called on infractions that never occured, there was justifiable evidence of a penalty on every flag. What Myself, and the others who have made their opinion known are stating, is that there needs to he discretion on flagging EVERY PENALTY. It ruins the flow of the game for both teams.

 

Officiating is a thankless job, I undertsand that and respect that. But one of the first things I ever learned in my days officiating was this: 1. A good official keeps the players safe at all times 2.The outcome of a game should never be controlled by an official's presence, but instead by the teams performance and strategy.

 

Tonight an injury free game was played, so the first aspect can definately be defended. But, I can't help but think that if there was not such a disparity in skill between these two teams, that the second point would not have been fulfilled. That is my opinion, I respect yours and agree with some things you said, and will now leave the matter be as it should.

I didn't even comment on the game as my mind was still clouded with penalty flags in my first post. Anyway, enough of that.

 

Belfry certainly passes the look test. #20 is a monster. There is not a soul under the age of 25 in Carter County that could even remotely resemble that child. He is a man among boys out there. #2 and #3 were no small fries either. Those were the backs for heavens sake. I really liked #78 and #57 for Belfry on the OL. Someone mentioned #20 not playing D...is he recovering from injury? If so I didn't noticed any hurts while playing offense. Belfry is good. I thought #9 and #7 were their most explosive speed athletes and I find out that #9 is only a sophomore...oh boy!

 

I don't think there is much difference between Russell, Mason and Belfry. (Overall Mason looks more athletic from top to bottom. Belfry is bigger and more powerful. Russell is the offensive system that will find your weakness and score on you because of it.) I said it before in talking about Russell and Mason...that I have seen several renditions of Russell and Mason that are better than this years versions...I will also say the same thing about Belfry. But that doesn't really matter. If and when these 3 teams play each other the games will be good, contested, high schoool games that I will be watching.

 

I talked to one person at the game that has seen all three (R,M and B) play and he said that Breathitt is better than all of them. Things will be interesting!

 

There is no need to continue to bring up the officiating in a game that is said and done and was never in doubt, so on my end I will let it rest after this post. I appreciate your viewpoint, and agree with alot you say about the fact that one cannot see everything from the stands, but I do have officiating experience on the high school level (not with football I will include, so take what I say as you wish).

 

Not once did I say it was "bad" officiating, I said it was "unusual", which it was as I have never seen a game with so many flags. I have been watching Belfry temas for many years, never once have I seen a Phillip Haywood coached team penalized for personal fould ans unsportsmanlike conducts as they were tonight.

 

I said it was "controversial", nearly everyone who attended the game has echoed sentiments that the officiating was different than your typical high school game, so I believe controversial fits.

 

I said it was "inconsistent", which I stand by. When you watch the film pay special attention to Belfry's defensive lineman #8 Phillip Hickman on all the pass plays in which the QB rolls out and Hickman purues. Then take note of the holding calls made against East Carter on similar pass plays when the call is made at the center of the line, while the play is outside of the tackles. Additionally, you bring up the issue of "Safety Calls" and noted how that they must be called whether it has direct effect on the play or not. On Belfry's kickoff return for a Touchdown by #9 Thomas Varney pay special attention to the blatant tripping attempt in the middle of the field. Luckily for everyone, Varney was a step too fast for the kid or else serious injury could have resulted. Maybe I missed it watching the end of the play, but at no point did an official consult the kid who attempted the trip.

 

Another point I would like to hit on the Unsportsmanlike penalties and personal fouls. Did it ever occur to you unusual that at no point tonight offsetting penalties were called? If both teams were saying thigns we could not hear, did they have the common courtesy to allow each other to take their turns saying it? East Carter would trash talk one series, Belfry the next? It is well known that with personal fouls it typically is the person who retalliates that gets the flag, but after it occurs so many times wouldn't the official be observant enough to catch the initial act? It seems cleaning up the rough play was apoint of emphasis throughout this game, why were they not noting the initial contact? It also strikes me as odd, that if this game was so emotionally charged and out of hand on the field with the number of personal fouls called, then how did it come to pass that at no point a player from either team attempted to punch/strike the other?

 

I agree that penalties were not called on infractions that never occured, there was justifiable evidence of a penalty on every flag. What Myself, and the others who have made their opinion known are stating, is that there needs to he discretion on flagging EVERY PENALTY. It ruins the flow of the game for both teams.

 

Officiating is a thankless job, I undertsand that and respect that. But one of the first things I ever learned in my days officiating was this: 1. A good official keeps the players safe at all times 2.The outcome of a game should never be controlled by an official's presence, but instead by the teams performance and strategy.

 

Tonight an injury free game was played, so the first aspect can definately be defended. But, I can't help but think that if there was not such a disparity in skill between these two teams, that the second point would not have been fulfilled. That is my opinion, I respect yours and agree with some things you said, and will now leave the matter be as it should.

 

 

The reason it didn't escalate to punches and or strikes is because of the officials in my opinion. As I say again, it is really unfair to question unsportsmanlike penalties from the stands because you are too far away to hear the players and and the officials. They DID talk to the players and some of the penalties were things being said to the officials by the player. As far as the boy trying to trip the ball carrier...... Well, it's not illegal to trip the ball carrier.

 

Rule 2-45: Tripping is the use of the lower leg or foot to obstruct an opponent, who is not the runner, below the knees.

 

Another example of people thinking they know officiating and the rules. I find it rather disturbing to think that a person with officiating experience would question officials on an open forum. I would think that you would know how difficult the job can be and know that officials do make mistakes and they don't see every penalty and it's unrealistic to think otherwise. The officials do use discretion when determining when to flag a penalty or when to talk whether you think they do or not. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. I do respect your opinion though.

This game sounds alot like the Russell/East Carter game earlier in the year.

I didn't even comment on the game as my mind was still clouded with penalty flags in my first post. Anyway, enough of that.

 

Belfry certainly passes the look test. #20 is a monster. There is not a soul under the age of 25 in Carter County that could even remotely resemble that child. He is a man among boys out there. #2 and #3 were no small fries either. Those were the backs for heavens sake. I really liked #78 and #57 for Belfry on the OL. Someone mentioned #20 not playing D...is he recovering from injury? If so I didn't noticed any hurts while playing offense. Belfry is good. I thought #9 and #7 were their most explosive speed athletes and I find out that #9 is only a sophomore...oh boy!

 

I don't think there is much difference between Russell, Mason and Belfry. (Overall Mason looks more athletic from top to bottom. Belfry is bigger and more powerful. Russell is the offensive system that will find your weakness and score on you because of it.) I said it before in talking about Russell and Mason...that I have seen several renditions of Russell and Mason that are better than this years versions...I will also say the same thing about Belfry. But that doesn't really matter. If and when these 3 teams play each other the games will be good, contested, high schoool games that I will be watching.

 

I talked to one person at the game that has seen all three (R,M and B) play and he said that Breathitt is better than all of them. Things will be interesting!

 

 

#7 also is a Sophomore.

 

Belfry actually is a fairly young team this year, they will return 7-8 starters on both sides of the ball. The O-line lsoes #78 Jimbo Stanley and TE #22 Adam Bowen. The abckfield lsoes #20 May.

 

Defensivelyt Belfry loses #8 Hickman at DT, Bowens at DE, Presotn at CB, and May at LB