Not to mention that if you encourage your kids to regularly swing at "borderline" pitches, you are dooming them to hit somewhere in the .200 area (at best). If I'm the pitcher and see a bunch of hitters swinging at pitches a few inches off the black, you can be certain I will forever live in that area and your hitters will be forced to hit everything off the handle and end of the bat.

 

But again, this is a coaching issue and you are more than entitled to pursue that philosophy. It just becomes a problem when you - in the role of an umpire - impose that philosphy upon other coaches/hitters.

 

 

First off a few inches off the black is not borderline and Should be called a ball. A 1/2 inch is borderline.

First off a few inches off the black is not borderline and Should be called a ball. A 1/2 inch is borderline.

 

Agreed. I think I took a portion of an earlier comment from Strike 3 (regarding the 2-3") and ascribed it to you. My bad.

With all due respect, there is not an Umpire alive today, MLB or High School, who can convince me with reasonable intellect, he can tell if a 2 7/8" diameter Baseball, missed a corner of a plate by 1/2".....No one, has that good of an eye and especially, not the HS ranks.

 

I'm with you on the eye but forcing batters, to swing at pitches off the plate, is not the role of the Umpire, but rather the Pitcher.

 

 

I dont think they could say it was outside by 1/2" or 1/8" or 3/4" but I think they could say it was outside by a fraction. I can see that a ball just barely missed. And in games that one team is way ahead these pitches become strikes when I am behind the plate.

I dont think they could say it was outside by 1/2" or 1/8" or 3/4" but I think they could say it was outside by a fraction. I can see that a ball just barely missed. And in games that one team is way ahead these pitches become strikes when I am behind the plate.

I've seen it done also, extending the zone for the team up but here is my question to that....If your goal, is increase the zone for the team leading and not to increase the zone of the team behind, does the outcome favor one team verse the other and ultimately, give the team behind a chance to get back into the game....or, is it merely to get the game over with.

 

The plate is what it is and shouldn't be changed, regardless of score. That is the coaches responsibility, to change the outcome by runs and not the Umpires. The role is to judge, fairly and impartially, a contest between two teams and not interject, his own set of standards.

Rules are in place for a reason and should not be modified, for any sporting contest to just shorten it. Football has the running clock rule, when the game is out of hand and Baseball, has the mercy rule....So if an Umpire wants to expedite the game, his priorities are entering into the contest.

 

Here's another question, for all of the Baseball fans....Have you ever seen an Umpire, who said "if the catcher drops a strike, I'll call it a ball"....I have and it infuriates me, to no end. I've requested clarification from him, as to which part of the NFHS Rules book, that is in....but that is his rule, which again, is not part of the actual contest rules.

 

 

I agree with you it should be called a strike if he catches it or not. I have called plenty of strikes that have gone to the backstop because the catcher was lazy and did not catch the ball. The same thing goes for a breaking ball in the dirt that passed through the strike zone . Usually this makes the fans go crazy. Some umps will not call it because they dont want to Look bad.

I've seen it done also, extending the zone for the team up but here is my question to that....If your goal, is increase the zone for the team leading and not to increase the zone of the team behind, does the outcome favor one team verse the other and ultimately, give the team behind a chance to get back into the game....or, is it merely to get the game over with.

 

The plate is what it is and shouldn't be changed, regardless of score. That is the coaches responsibility, to change the outcome by runs and not the Umpires. The role is to judge, fairly and impartially, a contest between two teams and not interject, his own set of standards.

 

 

You are probably correct in all that you posted here. And in a perfect world this is how it should be.

The problem with calling strikes based on direction of the game is it teaches hitters to swing at bad pitches. How many times have you seen a ball 8 inches off the plate called a strike and the hiiter then swings at a ball 12 inches off the plate for strike three? The umpire got this batter out because he didn't call game by the rules of baseball which is the reason for RULES. A strike is a strike is a strike. If the ball doesn't cross the plate it is not a strike. Teaching kids to swing at strikes and pitchers to throw strikes is a very important part of baseball. Umpires missing calls is one thing ,to admit you call strikes on balls off the plate means you don't follow the rules of baseball. I hear umpires say if the pitcher hits his spot it should be called a strike if set up a close to the plate but what is fair about this to the hitter?Good umpires try to call games by the rules.

Umpiring is a tough job and more often than not one side is going to be mad.

 

When I first started umping several years ago there was team that was up by 9 runs, they had been at bat for what seemed like 30 minutes. There was a close play at third and I called the kid out so we could get the inning over with. The other team came back and won that game. I said right then I would never do that again. ( call a kid out that was safe to make the game end quicker) I can honestly say that I have never done that since.

 

I have played the game, I have coached the game, and now I umpire the game. Sometimes I just miss a strike/ ball call. If I got them all correct I wouldn't be doing HS I would be working in ball parks where hotdogs are $4.75

 

While the rulebook does a good job of outlining the strike zone, In practice there are different strike zones. If I used the my varsity strike zone in the 9-10 year old little league they would never get past the 2nd inning. And if i used my 9-10 year old strike zone ( nose to toes) in a varsity game they would run me out of town ( and rightfully so). But by nature most umps adjust their strike zone to the situation. As a matter of fact coaches that I talk to want a bigger strikezone in JV games than the Varsity game. So I try to do this. I agree consistancy is the key and it would be great if all the umps were on the same page. But what one ump considers a ball the next ump may consider it a strike. Players have to adjust to what the ump is calling. And in games that are out of hand, when an ump expands his strike zone the players usually know it after the first batter and need to adjust.

 

I have enjoyed reading this thread and getting insite from "the other side" Your points are very valid. And I will keep them mind the next time I am tempted to expand the strike zone in a blowout.

 

When ever I walk off the field and people tell me I did a good job you can guarentee that that there were two good pitchers on the mound that game.

Umpiring is a tough job and more often than not one side is going to be mad.

 

When I first started umping several years ago there was team that was up by 9 runs, they had been at bat for what seemed like 30 minutes. There was a close play at third and I called the kid out so we could get the inning over with. The other team came back and won that game. I said right then I would never do that again. ( call a kid out that was safe to make the game end quicker) I can honestly say that I have never done that since.

 

I have played the game, I have coached the game, and now I umpire the game. Sometimes I just miss a strike/ ball call. If I got them all correct I wouldn't be doing HS I would be working in ball parks where hotdogs are $4.75

 

While the rulebook does a good job of outlining the strike zone, In practice there are different strike zones. If I used the my varsity strike zone in the 9-10 year old little league they would never get past the 2nd inning. And if i used my 9-10 year old strike zone ( nose to toes) in a varsity game they would run me out of town ( and rightfully so). But by nature most umps adjust their strike zone to the situation. As a matter of fact coaches that I talk to want a bigger strikezone in JV games than the Varsity game. So I try to do this. I agree consistency is the key and it would be great if all the umps were on the same page. But what one ump considers a ball the next ump may consider it a strike. Players have to adjust to what the ump is calling. And in games that are out of hand, when an ump expands his strike zone the players usually know it after the first batter and need to adjust.

 

I have enjoyed reading this thread and getting insight from "the other side" Your points are very valid. And I will keep them mind the next time I am tempted to expand the strike zone in a blowout.

 

When ever I walk off the field and people tell me I did a good job you can guarantee that that there were two good pitchers on the mound that game.

Hector, the game of Baseball needs more guys like you, who have the best interest of everyone in mind. Not often, do we get a chance to say thank you, who has devoted their time, in both coaching and umpiring....I say thank you, for all you've done....:thumb:

 

You've chosen a "thankless" profession and many of us Baseball purists, understand the importance and appreciate, the countless hours. I too, have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.

Umpiring is a tough job and more often than not one side is going to be mad.

 

When I first started umping several years ago there was team that was up by 9 runs, they had been at bat for what seemed like 30 minutes. There was a close play at third and I called the kid out so we could get the inning over with. The other team came back and won that game. I said right then I would never do that again. ( call a kid out that was safe to make the game end quicker) I can honestly say that I have never done that since.

 

I have played the game, I have coached the game, and now I umpire the game. Sometimes I just miss a strike/ ball call. If I got them all correct I wouldn't be doing HS I would be working in ball parks where hotdogs are $4.75

 

While the rulebook does a good job of outlining the strike zone, In practice there are different strike zones. If I used the my varsity strike zone in the 9-10 year old little league they would never get past the 2nd inning. And if i used my 9-10 year old strike zone ( nose to toes) in a varsity game they would run me out of town ( and rightfully so). But by nature most umps adjust their strike zone to the situation. As a matter of fact coaches that I talk to want a bigger strikezone in JV games than the Varsity game. So I try to do this. I agree consistancy is the key and it would be great if all the umps were on the same page. But what one ump considers a ball the next ump may consider it a strike. Players have to adjust to what the ump is calling. And in games that are out of hand, when an ump expands his strike zone the players usually know it after the first batter and need to adjust.

 

I have enjoyed reading this thread and getting insite from "the other side" Your points are very valid. And I will keep them mind the next time I am tempted to expand the strike zone in a blowout.

 

When ever I walk off the field and people tell me I did a good job you can guarentee that that there were two good pitchers on the mound that game.

 

Very classy. Not that I have any earthly idea who you are, but I am guessing you are a very good umpire, as the biggest part of being an umpire is caring about the sport and the boys and you certainly seem to fit that bill.

I've seen it done also, extending the zone for the team up but here is my question to that....If your goal, is increase the zone for the team leading and not to increase the zone of the team behind, does the outcome favor one team verse the other and ultimately, give the team behind a chance to get back into the game....or, is it merely to get the game over with.

 

The plate is what it is and shouldn't be changed, regardless of score. That is the coaches responsibility, to change the outcome by runs and not the Umpires. The role is to judge, fairly and impartially, a contest between two teams and not interject, his own set of standards.

It has been entertaining to read this discussion. I'll throw out a situation for you and let you be the judge. My son, who is 13, had a game this weekend. They were to play a team from somewhere in Indiana twice. In the first game my son's team won 10-0 in 5 innings. The second game the score was 17-0 in at the completion of 2 innings! A couple things I thought were done right at that point. First, the scoreboard operator turned off the scoreboard. Second, the umpire widened the zone, especially on strikes 1 and 2. Never anything crazy, but wider nonetheless.

 

I guess my question to you K3 is that do you think that the umpire should NEVER widen the zone? Even in the above situation? FYI the final score of the second game was in the 30's, with station to station baseball after 10 runs.

It has been entertaining to read this discussion. I'll throw out a situation for you and let you be the judge. My son, who is 13, had a game this weekend. They were to play a team from somewhere in Indiana twice. In the first game my son's team won 10-0 in 5 innings. The second game the score was 17-0 in at the completion of 2 innings! A couple things I thought were done right at that point. First, the scoreboard operator turned off the scoreboard. Second, the umpire widened the zone, especially on strikes 1 and 2. Never anything crazy, but wider nonetheless.

 

I guess my question to you K3 is that do you think that the umpire should NEVER widen the zone? Even in the above situation? FYI the final score of the second game was in the 30's, with station to station baseball after 10 runs.

These are HS games, regarding our discussion. Youth development games, should not be about winning but development. I too have stopped updating a scoreboard, in both Baseball and Basketball, due to an overwhelming margin.

 

I'm still not in favor, of increasing a strike zone but can understand, when pitches off the plate are given, in youth games like you describe. Better yet, would be to institute a 3 inning rule, if down by 15 than to continue to allow one team get slaughtered.

 

Scoring 30+ runs, doesn't need to happen and if a team allows that many, in a youth game....It's a combination of being over-matched and not the norm.

 

If your son played a team like this each game, of what benefit would there be for him offensively....None.

i too have greatly enjoyed reading this discussion to get a point of view from the umpire side about what goes on. and i too can only echo the point that as a coach what i am looking for from an umpire is a consistent zone. this allows me as a coach to say to a player who may have complained about a strike call that the umpire has been calling it there all game for both teams and that he needs to make an adjustment. if i don't believe it is a strike, then i will tell my players not to swing at that pitch until he has two strikes and then just try to spoil those close pitches until the pitcher makes a mistake.

Umpiring is a tough job and more often than not one side is going to be mad.

 

When I first started umping several years ago there was team that was up by 9 runs, they had been at bat for what seemed like 30 minutes. There was a close play at third and I called the kid out so we could get the inning over with. The other team came back and won that game. I said right then I would never do that again. ( call a kid out that was safe to make the game end quicker) I can honestly say that I have never done that since.

 

I have played the game, I have coached the game, and now I umpire the game. Sometimes I just miss a strike/ ball call. If I got them all correct I wouldn't be doing HS I would be working in ball parks where hotdogs are $4.75

 

While the rulebook does a good job of outlining the strike zone, In practice there are different strike zones. If I used the my varsity strike zone in the 9-10 year old little league they would never get past the 2nd inning. And if i used my 9-10 year old strike zone ( nose to toes) in a varsity game they would run me out of town ( and rightfully so). But by nature most umps adjust their strike zone to the situation. As a matter of fact coaches that I talk to want a bigger strikezone in JV games than the Varsity game. So I try to do this. I agree consistancy is the key and it would be great if all the umps were on the same page. But what one ump considers a ball the next ump may consider it a strike. Players have to adjust to what the ump is calling. And in games that are out of hand, when an ump expands his strike zone the players usually know it after the first batter and need to adjust.

 

I have enjoyed reading this thread and getting insite from "the other side" Your points are very valid. And I will keep them mind the next time I am tempted to expand the strike zone in a blowout.

 

When ever I walk off the field and people tell me I did a good job you can guarentee that that there were two good pitchers on the mound that game.

 

Hector, I too appreciate the input from an umpire on this discussion. I also agree with S3 in that this is about development. I guess my point is and I saw it again last night at the 31st district tournament is that certain umpires can't seem to maintain the "zone". Last night, pitchers for both teams as well as everyone behind the backstop couldn't make heads or tails about what was being called. Pitches thrown in the same spot were called both ways. That is what makes it bad for the teams and the fans. Can you come to the 8th region???

Right or wrong the strike zone can change in a game. Early in a game my strike zone is pretty legit. But if a team gets ahead by 8 or 9 runs their hitters had better come up with intention of swinging the bat. And a pitch that is a borderline ball in the first inning is a strike in the later innings in these types of games.

 

Also My strike zone is not a square. A pitch that is just off the plate that is waist high will be called a strike, and if it was knee high it would be called a ball.

 

Good pitchers make Umpires Good.

No offense intended hector, but an umpire with this mentality should be sanctioned by the KHSAA.

ALL PLAYERS deserve the same strike zone.

 

And what is "Also My strike zone is not a square"???? It's not YOUR strike zone, it's what is written in the rule book and not subject to your interpretation.

BTW, No strike zone is square but BY RULE, It is rectangular.

 

Good umpires are good umpires regardless of the quality of pitcher!