Your right they were pretty successful, and played with alot of heart. But those kids also entered high school football knowing how to win games. They were smart football players who knew how to do things right, and had talent. I remember when they were seniors in youth football they made the super bowl and lost to campbell county. So they knew how to win in football. However most of the guys in Ludlow when they get to high school they dont know how to win, because hardly any of the teams are ever successful in youth football. Even Lewis and them were pretty bad during their years in youth football. Then their freshman year where Coach Staley ran alot of shotgun on the freshman team they were very successful. Then that very next year, when they were playing varsity football we went and tried to run an I formation, and just alot of traditional formations, and we couldn't get anything done because the line cant block in those formations. Trust me I know, because I was getting hit every time I touched the ball. Then the next year, we go shot gun and they all of a sudden are able to create some holes for the runningback, because of the scheme used for the shotgun. But if we were still in the I formation they would not have been able to do it. And that line that year with Schricte, Hensley, Logan, Shack, Deller, is the best line we have had in the last 4 years however those guys couldn't block if it was an I formation, and they even admit that. I really dont know what you dont get about this, we dont have the line to do it as much as you would like to think. I mean why do you think alot of the guys who play line in youth football can't create holes at all, but once they get to high school and block out of the shotgun they are actually able to a little bit more.

 

I know you think Mills would be better off out of the I formation, and you know what that is probably true. And that has never been the problem, Ludlow has also had guys in the skill positions who are capable of running in different formations. I know when Jeff Helmer was the tailback his senior year, he probably would have been better off from the I formation, but it wouldn't have mattered because he wouldn't have had any whole to run through in that formation. It is simple and I dont know why you dont get it, Ludlow just does not have the line who are capable of blocking in an I or any formation like that. I mean even in this shotgun formation, the line still doens't do that great, but it does better than it would in the I formation that you want. Now I know we lost alot of our line from last year, so I dont know how the lineman for this year will be. But it would be a pretty good guess of mine that they would be better off in the shotgun formation as well. Now I do agree with you that they need another formation for short yardage or goal line situations. Or atleast have it in their playbook to use unlike last year. However if they were to use to the I formation alot, then the offense would get no where...

 

Please tell me where the offense went last year? Statisically we had one of the weakest offenses in NKY. last year. And it was definitely predictable. They need to line up in different formations and attempt to establish a running game from a traditional formation. Will it be successful? I have no idea and neither do you. But what they did offensively last year was not what I would call a success. You can keep your opinion, as I'm sure you will, but I know you played for alot of different coaches during your football days (including youth) and I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, would agree with what I'm saying. Maybe you should talk to some of them and see what they say. Talk to some former players that played at Ludlow and see what they have to say. Just a thought.

Please tell me where the offense went last year? Statisically we had one of the weakest offenses in NKY. last year. And it was definitely predictable. They need to line up in different formations and attempt to establish a running game from a traditional formation. Will it be successful? I have no idea and neither do you. But what they did offensively last year was not what I would call a success. You can keep your opinion, as I'm sure you will, but I know you played for alot of different coaches during your football days (including youth) and I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, would agree with what I'm saying. Maybe you should talk to some of them and see what they say. Talk to some former players that played at Ludlow and see what they have to say. Just a thought.

 

Well I am not going to talk to any of my coaches from youth football, because IMO there was only one good coach in the youth football system when I was growing up, and that was the coach who coached me when I was a first year senior. Actually I think one of the things that hurt Ludlow is the youth football program because there are not many good coaches at all at that level, and most of the kids in the other programs are more prepared for high school than Ludlow kids are. Also as for former players, I have talked to ALOT and just about ALL OF THEM agree with me on this one. Yeah like all would like to see some different formations, but we also ALL AGREE that it can't really be done because WE DONT HAVE THE LINE!

 

Also your right I wouldn't know for sure if they could establish a runninggame from the traditional formation, but I know I would bet ALOT of money on that it wouldn't work and I probably would make ALOT of money off of it because good chance I would win that bet. I know I just talked to some people and have an idea on who would be the line next year, and it makes me stick by what I am saying even more, because I dont see anyway where that line would be able to block good from the traditional set. As I said Mills might be better off with a full back in front of him, but it wont mean a dang thing if they are getting hit in the backfield as soon as they get the ball and 90% of the time that would be what would happen...

First I would like you to respond to the post I just commented back on in the post above please. But after that I would like you to answer this. You say we dont have the players to run this shotgun formation, and the offense needs to fit what is best for the players (which is true). However please show me where an I formation fits the players on this team the best? Because you would have a hard time proving that, because as I been saying we just dont have the line for it. We have the skill position players, and that has never been a problem at Ludlow, but we dont have the line, and from the looks of it we wont have the line this year that is capable of running a traditional offense...

Well I am not going to talk to any of my coaches from youth football, because IMO there was only one good coach in the youth football system when I was growing up, and that was the coach who coached me when I was a first year senior. Actually I think one of the things that hurt Ludlow is the youth football program because there are not many good coaches at all at that level, and most of the kids in the other programs are more prepared for high school than Ludlow kids are. Also as for former players, I have talked to ALOT and just about ALL OF THEM agree with me on this one. Yeah like all would like to see some different formations, but we also ALL AGREE that it can't really be done because WE DONT HAVE THE LINE!

 

Also your right I wouldn't know for sure if they could establish a runninggame from the traditional formation, but I know I would bet ALOT of money on that it wouldn't work and I probably would make ALOT of money off of it because good chance I would win that bet. I know I just talked to some people and have an idea on who would be the line next year, and it makes me stick by what I am saying even more, because I dont see anyway where that line would be able to block good from the traditional set. As I said Mills might be better off with a full back in front of him, but it wont mean a dang thing if they are getting hit in the backfield as soon as they get the ball and 90% of the time that would be what would happen...

 

And you know this because: A) Some of your former teammates agree with you. B) You have coached and know what you're talking about, or C) You just love to disagree with me. If you would PM me and let me know who your coach was your first year of senior youth.

And you know this because: A) Some of your former teammates agree with you. B) You have coached and know what you're talking about, or C) You just love to disagree with me. If you would PM me and let me know who your coach was your first year of senior youth.

 

Well lets see, your the one who told me to go ask some of my former teammates, and see what they thought. Because apparently you thought that they would agree with you, but just about all of them agree with them. However I came up with this opinion before I even ever talked to them. Then hearing them also agreeing with me, also makes me back my statement even stronger. ..Secondly I dont love to disagree with you, but it just comes down to that I dont agree with what you say. I know they are your opinions, and these are my opinions. I have never seen someone take it so personal just because I disagree with your opinion, I mean I dont know how many times now you have said that I just love to disagree with you. Because that is just not true, I would rather agree with someone who also loves Ludlow and cares about what happened, however if I have a different opinion of something I will let it be known..I know you know who I am, and well you wouldn't let me know who you are. I know I have a few ideas of maybe who you are, and if I really did know who you were, I might not argue with you that much even if I disagree. Because when I know someone who is older than me I usually would just respect their opinion and not say much back. However since you decided to know who I am, and rather not tell me who you were, you made it very hard to not argue back and let you know my opinion on a subject. Because as I said I tend not to argue with people WHO I KNOW who are older than me and have been around the game longer, because I try to show them respect even if I disagree with them. However that is not the case here, since you know me, and told me that who you are is not important to me. That showed disrespect to me on your part, so that is why I feel so free to show my opinion here, even though in most cases I wouldn't...

I know Josh had 1 big game (rushing) and was listed in the players to watch for column in the paper. Also didn't he miss the last couple of games due to injury?

I just wanted to note that he got the injury playing JV, while Mills and Gilbert were the Varsity RB's.

Having a few different looks besides the shotgun would be a good idea, but there are a few problems with that. Not to put anyone down, but the kids that are in place are not kids that are going to be able to learn a lot of different plays out of different formations. There is no point in having a ton of formations if you can only run a few plays out of them. If anyone disagrees with that they need to sit down at one of Ludlows practices, or ask Coach Chilldress or Keller, they will tell you the same thing. Some of the kids don't care enough to learn the plays, or simply are not capable of doing it. At the same time they may be the only players that can block anyone at all, so you have to go with them.

Different offenses can also compensate for a less athletic team. Throwing a lot of different looks at the opposition could cause the defense to tighten up, obviously making up for a team that has found themselves in trouble running the same few tired plays constantly, leaving the defense anticipating and ready to pounce. Where this does come to be a problem is the line. Beyond Helmer the tight end position may look a little thin this season which eliminates a lot of the more "traditional" looks you might get from a high school team. A lack of talent up-front, as well as players who may be playing selfishly, unfundamentally, or as I said before flat out cant remember what in the world they are suppossed to be doing eliminates a lot of the other "traditional" formations that could be run. This is not to mention any trick plays, which teams in Ludlow's situation may often run (West Carter and Fairview's teams of a few years ago come to mind) can not be run if the guys aren't giving enough time up front.

Not that it really matters, but IMO you both are very right and both are very wrong. Ludlow's offense, which gave them a good quick fix, has not produced the results that it had previously. For a small team it is not a bad base offense at all. It provides some opportunities for plays to be made, even if there are weak links in the chain. At the same time the ability to give different looks would be invaluable to the team, if it were something the players could learn and get results from. The team is going to have a lot of question marks this year, as most high school teams do every year. It will be interesting to see the solution Coach Borchers and the rest of the staff come up with.

Having a few different looks besides the shotgun would be a good idea, but there are a few problems with that. Not to put anyone down, but the kids that are in place are not kids that are going to be able to learn a lot of different plays out of different formations. There is no point in having a ton of formations if you can only run a few plays out of them. If anyone disagrees with that they need to sit down at one of Ludlows practices, or ask Coach Chilldress or Keller, they will tell you the same thing. Some of the kids don't care enough to learn the plays, or simply are not capable of doing it. At the same time they may be the only players that can block anyone at all, so you have to go with them.

Different offenses can also compensate for a less athletic team. Throwing a lot of different looks at the opposition could cause the defense to tighten up, obviously making up for a team that has found themselves in trouble running the same few tired plays constantly, leaving the defense anticipating and ready to pounce. Where this does come to be a problem is the line. Beyond Helmer the tight end position may look a little thin this season which eliminates a lot of the more "traditional" looks you might get from a high school team. A lack of talent up-front, as well as players who may be playing selfishly, unfundamentally, or as I said before flat out cant remember what in the world they are suppossed to be doing eliminates a lot of the other "traditional" formations that could be run. This is not to mention any trick plays, which teams in Ludlow's situation may often run (West Carter and Fairview's teams of a few years ago come to mind) can not be run if the guys aren't giving enough time up front.

Not that it really matters, but IMO you both are very right and both are very wrong. Ludlow's offense, which gave them a good quick fix, has not produced the results that it had previously. For a small team it is not a bad base offense at all. It provides some opportunities for plays to be made, even if there are weak links in the chain. At the same time the ability to give different looks would be invaluable to the team, if it were something the players could learn and get results from. The team is going to have a lot of question marks this year, as most high school teams do every year. It will be interesting to see the solution Coach Borchers and the rest of the staff come up with.

Are you saying that Ludlow's linemen are not smart enough or unskilled enough to learn blocking schemes from different formations?

Nothing against the players, but at least one of the front five would struggle terribly with adding more to the offense which is pleanty to ruin any scheme. I never once said unskilled, its more of a problem of being undisciplined which has nothing to do with skill.

What offense did Ludlow run last year? Defense? Thanks

Having a few different looks besides the shotgun would be a good idea, but there are a few problems with that. Not to put anyone down, but the kids that are in place are not kids that are going to be able to learn a lot of different plays out of different formations. There is no point in having a ton of formations if you can only run a few plays out of them. If anyone disagrees with that they need to sit down at one of Ludlows practices, or ask Coach Chilldress or Keller, they will tell you the same thing. Some of the kids don't care enough to learn the plays, or simply are not capable of doing it. At the same time they may be the only players that can block anyone at all, so you have to go with them.

Different offenses can also compensate for a less athletic team. Throwing a lot of different looks at the opposition could cause the defense to tighten up, obviously making up for a team that has found themselves in trouble running the same few tired plays constantly, leaving the defense anticipating and ready to pounce. Where this does come to be a problem is the line. Beyond Helmer the tight end position may look a little thin this season which eliminates a lot of the more "traditional" looks you might get from a high school team. A lack of talent up-front, as well as players who may be playing selfishly, unfundamentally, or as I said before flat out cant remember what in the world they are suppossed to be doing eliminates a lot of the other "traditional" formations that could be run. This is not to mention any trick plays, which teams in Ludlow's situation may often run (West Carter and Fairview's teams of a few years ago come to mind) can not be run if the guys aren't giving enough time up front.

Not that it really matters, but IMO you both are very right and both are very wrong. Ludlow's offense, which gave them a good quick fix, has not produced the results that it had previously. For a small team it is not a bad base offense at all. It provides some opportunities for plays to be made, even if there are weak links in the chain. At the same time the ability to give different looks would be invaluable to the team, if it were something the players could learn and get results from. The team is going to have a lot of question marks this year, as most high school teams do every year. It will be interesting to see the solution Coach Borchers and the rest of the staff come up with.

 

Nice long post, saying everything that I already know. But still very good post, and good to see you posting here some lately again! :thumb:

Are you saying that Ludlow's linemen are not smart enough or unskilled enough to learn blocking schemes from different formations?

 

I didn't see once where he said they were unskilled enought to learn new blocking schemes. However he is right that adding more formations, add for more stuff that the line has to learn. Which IMO could take away from some other areas and make them weaker, because they would be spending time learning other formations, instead of practicing and getting better at the stuff that they already know. Plus as I have been saying for awhile now, I just not sold on that the line could get it done in any traditional formations. I not trying to take anything away from Coach Childress and Mckensie, because they are good coaches. But it just comes down to that they dont IMO have the lineman who can succeed in the traditional formations. They have the best chance to be successful in the shotgun. I know I do however would like to see some sort of short yardage offense this year, instead of being in shotgun for even 3rd and a yard like last year we did alot...

I didn't see once where he said they were unskilled enought to learn new blocking schemes. However he is right that adding more formations, add for more stuff that the line has to learn. Which IMO could take away from some other areas and make them weaker, because they would be spending time learning other formations, instead of practicing and getting better at the stuff that they already know. Plus as I have been saying for awhile now, I just not sold on that the line could get it done in any traditional formations. I not trying to take anything away from Coach Childress and Mckensie, because they are good coaches. But it just comes down to that they dont IMO have the lineman who can succeed in the traditional formations. They have the best chance to be successful in the shotgun. I know I do however would like to see some sort of short yardage offense this year, instead of being in shotgun for even 3rd and a yard like last year we did alot...

 

I simply asked a question and if I'm not mistaken I didn't ask you. I'm going to bring my thoughts on this to an end. I think I'm just going to wait until the season starts and see what happens regarding the offense. I will forever be a Panther and will continue to support them.

:thumb: That's something we can all agree on!

I simply asked a question and if I'm not mistaken I didn't ask you. I'm going to bring my thoughts on this to an end. I think I'm just going to wait until the season starts and see what happens regarding the offense. I will forever be a Panther and will continue to support them.

 

True, however I felt like I should respond to that, because he didn't say anything like you asked...However I do agree with both parts I bolded because honestly if you didn't decide to end this now, I was going to end it on my next post as well because its obvious this is just something we have to agree to disagree on. In the end though I know we all just want whats best for the Ludlow program. :thumb: