1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6. We discussed this when we were going through some classes upon me becoming a deacon and studying the qualifications and the responsibilities I would be assuming.

 

One thing to point out here is that this could be looked at as only having one wife and not participating in having multiple wives AT THE SAME TIME as was in practice by some in that time.

 

Possibly, but if you are divorced you don't have one wife.

Matthew 19:6-9 lead me to start a thread on defining when someone was married awhile ago. I am not sure that God waits until a peace of paper is signed before he designates someone is married. I am not convinced that we can limit God's view of marriage until something is legally done on this planet.

 

So in this Scripture I wonder what a marriage truly is in the view of God. For example, in our society today, your pastor could be divorced (I believe), not want it, not agree to it and have no say in it. Will God view him differently since it was a legal divorce based upon our society rather than how your pastor is viewing it from God?

 

Also, if a judge or some guy in Vegas marries a couple and God was NEVER EVER brought into the ceremony or commitment is that a marriage that God views as a marriage?

 

We may be totally wrong on what a marriage is? I have heard some commentary that when you sleep with someone (and I am not talking about the snoring and getting ZZZZZZ's) you are maybe in the sight of God committing yourself in marriage with that person. I can't remember the exact Scriptures but I believe there are some to support that view.

 

I definitely think that our society as changed sexual relations to something our society wanted them to be rather than the way God views them.

Now wait a minute. I'm not threadjacking here. Hearsay based his question on what the bible says about leading a church. I presented a counter-arguement based on other scripture. I maintain that too many times, churches (or church leaders) pick and choose scriptures to follow in a time of hardship or turmoil despite other literal meanings in the written word.

 

Yeah, I'm OK with it. In fact, this topic has taken me a lot of different places so I would say almost anything goes here.

Now wait a minute. I'm not threadjacking here. Hearsay based his question on what the bible says about leading a church. I presented a counter-arguement based on other scripture. I maintain that too many times, churches (or church leaders) pick and choose scriptures to follow in a time of hardship or turmoil despite other literal meanings in the written word.

While churches will not be perfect because they are made up of imperfect human beings (and thank God for that or I wouldn't be allowed to attend and worship and study and learn there), if a church is not basing their decisions on Scripture, a well-thought out meaningful study of Scripture I would recommend looking for another church.

 

On my another thread point, I foresaw us going to Scriptures outside of the discussion of divorce. My bad if my assumption was wrong.

Possibly, but if you are divorced you don't have one wife.

In society's view. How does God view it would be the question? And I think you have two very different views, here. I do not want to limit God's view on what a divorce truly is to be what society, especially our society that you can be married and divorced in 24 hours, views it.

 

Looking at your Matthew 19:11 Scripture, maybe the one wife comes into play if he was to remarry.

Possibly, but if you are divorced you don't have one wife.

One other reason why I wonder if we can't say this is about having multiple wives at the same time is because then it would discount widowers. A man's wife dies and he remarries. Technically, he is no longer eligible here because he has had two wives.

A lot of Scriptures, but the ones that stick in my mind are 1 Tim 3:2 etc.; Titus 1:6; Matt 19:6-9; 1 Pet 5:1 etc.; Mal 2:16; 1 Cor. 7:1-11; Jer 17:9; Prov. 28:26; Rom 12:3-6; Eph 4:11; Acts 13:2-3; Jam 3:1.

Don't see any relevance to divorce in 1 Peter 5:1 but it is the beginning of one of my favorite Scriptures in 1 Peter 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

 

1 Cor 7:1-11 I believe is where most people take that Paul implies that we all shouldn't be married. I don't believe he says that we shouldn't but that it would be easier but we don't all have the gift that he has.

 

 

Proverbs 28:26 is a great one and a wise one to have in your mindset as a Church leader. Too many times I have done the former trusting in myself instead of looking for the wisdom in God.:thumb: Good one.

 

James 3:1 scares the beejivies out of me. I have taken on that assignment of teacher and know I am going to be judged harder for it. One reason why I try to cross every t and dot every i with Scripture and not "this is what LBBC" says.:thumb:

Random thoughts:

 

I once heard a pastor say that you are not married until the marriage is consummated. By his reasoning, are you married, in God's eyes, to every person you have slept with?

 

At a church my husband and I attended years ago, a man was turned down as a deacon because his wife had been married before. (She married young and left this husband within 6 weeks of the marriage because he was beating her.) When the couple confronted the church board of elders and deacons with their disagreement, they pointed out that the church currently had a deacon who was married to a woman who had a child out of wedlock. How was this situation any different? She was told that because of her "scornful past" her hubby couldn't be approved, even though he was the 'husband of one wife' as specified in I Timothy. She then pointed out that she was sunday school teacher and perhaps the board should find someone less 'scornful' to teach those children. The board tried to back pedal at this point, because the woman had been a very dependable s.s. teacher and had been raised in the church. They said that the requirements for teaching were different. So they held against him something that happened to her years before. It turned out that this woman, who had been a christian for longer than some of the board, was more knowledgable in the scripture also. This eventually led to several people leaving the church, including my family.

 

Don't forget that Jesus himself was not a respecter of persons. He offered his grace and forgiveness to all he met, including the woman at the well. If you remember, the scripture say he knealt down and scribbled something in the sand, and told the pharisees "Let those who have not sinned throw the first stone." I can't wait to ask Jesus what he wrote. I for one believe he has a great sense of humor and wonder if perhaps he was writing the names of the pharisees' mistresses in the sand. LOL

 

Having been raised in church since the day I was born, I held strongly to the "rules, regulations" of said church. Only as an adult, did I realize that God's grace is sufficient and that none of us are worthy. There is a huge difference between religion, like the pharisees practiced, and spiritualness. We as humans make things so much harder than they have to be. I don't believe it is necessary to care so much what people think, as long as my heart is right and my conscience is clear towards God.

 

Regarding the question of the pastor whose wife divorced him: I personally believe that he has lots of good work to do for the Lord on this earth. He, imo, would be even more capable of helping other divorcees in their time of need. One requirement in II Timothy is that he is in control of his household. Some may say that this shows that he is not. But how many leaders of churches, (deacons, elders, s.s. teachers and the like) do you know whose kids are doing drugs, in jail, driving drunk? I've heard my own kids refer to these types of kids as "P.K.'s" (preacher's kid). If I were on the board of this church, I would have to completely evaluate my own homelife, making sure I met the requirements specified in I Timothy, and other verses, before making a judgement regarding this pastor's situation. When you point at someone, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself.

 

Hearsay, I do not envy your situation. I will keep you and your church family in my prayers.

Random thoughts:

 

I once heard a pastor say that you are not married until the marriage is consummated. By his reasoning, are you married, in God's eyes, to every person you have slept with?

 

My concern is not whether you are married to every person. Rather have we been committing adultery after that first person?

Very good point. Actually both should be concerns!

The bible talks of sacrificing humans, killing thieves, keeping slaves, etc. These things are not considered "OK" by today's standards even though the written word endorses them.

I must have skipped over the part where the Bible endorses human sacrifice.

 

Anyway, pastors and deacons should be looked at case by case. Even those like Hearsay's pastor needs to be looked at closely, because the Bible tells pastors that they're first priority is to take care of their family. If they are unable to do that, then how can they possbily take care of the family of God?

Random thoughts:

 

I once heard a pastor say that you are not married until the marriage is consummated. By his reasoning, are you married, in God's eyes, to every person you have slept with?

 

At a church my husband and I attended years ago, a man was turned down as a deacon because his wife had been married before. (She married young and left this husband within 6 weeks of the marriage because he was beating her.) When the couple confronted the church board of elders and deacons with their disagreement, they pointed out that the church currently had a deacon who was married to a woman who had a child out of wedlock. How was this situation any different? She was told that because of her "scornful past" her hubby couldn't be approved, even though he was the 'husband of one wife' as specified in I Timothy. She then pointed out that she was sunday school teacher and perhaps the board should find someone less 'scornful' to teach those children. The board tried to back pedal at this point, because the woman had been a very dependable s.s. teacher and had been raised in the church. They said that the requirements for teaching were different. So they held against him something that happened to her years before. It turned out that this woman, who had been a christian for longer than some of the board, was more knowledgable in the scripture also. This eventually led to several people leaving the church, including my family.

 

Don't forget that Jesus himself was not a respecter of persons. He offered his grace and forgiveness to all he met, including the woman at the well. If you remember, the scripture say he knealt down and scribbled something in the sand, and told the pharisees "Let those who have not sinned throw the first stone." I can't wait to ask Jesus what he wrote. I for one believe he has a great sense of humor and wonder if perhaps he was writing the names of the pharisees' mistresses in the sand. LOL

 

Having been raised in church since the day I was born, I held strongly to the "rules, regulations" of said church. Only as an adult, did I realize that God's grace is sufficient and that none of us are worthy. There is a huge difference between religion, like the pharisees practiced, and spiritualness. We as humans make things so much harder than they have to be. I don't believe it is necessary to care so much what people think, as long as my heart is right and my conscience is clear towards God.

 

Regarding the question of the pastor whose wife divorced him: I personally believe that he has lots of good work to do for the Lord on this earth. He, imo, would be even more capable of helping other divorcees in their time of need. One requirement in II Timothy is that he is in control of his household. Some may say that this shows that he is not. But how many leaders of churches, (deacons, elders, s.s. teachers and the like) do you know whose kids are doing drugs, in jail, driving drunk? I've heard my own kids refer to these types of kids as "P.K.'s" (preacher's kid). If I were on the board of this church, I would have to completely evaluate my own homelife, making sure I met the requirements specified in I Timothy, and other verses, before making a judgement regarding this pastor's situation. When you point at someone, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself.

 

Hearsay, I do not envy your situation. I will keep you and your church family in my prayers.

 

This is a very well thought out post, and I appreciate the prayer.

 

I have thought about approaching this situation not so much from the standpoint of the "issue" of a divorced pastor, but rather from the "issue" of church unity. As a deacon, my chief role is as a servant and to guard the unity of the church. I know that many people, in this church and in the community, carry certain views/prejudices regarding divorce. They may be wrong, misled, or whatever, but they are in fact their views. And so, of necessity, this divorce is going to cause many church members and people in the community to view this church with disdain (rightly or wrongly) if we continue to be led by a divorced pastor.

 

The best example of this I can think of is the split that was caused at First Baptist Atlanta when Dr. Charles Stanley divorced but was allowed to continue as pastor. His own son left. It has been a stain on First Baptist's ministry ever since.

 

That "stain" is a wedge that Satan will always have with this church as long as a divorced pastor remains.

 

That is the way I am leaning right now.

Hearsay, I'm not making light of your situation or the questions you pose. So, please don't take my forthcoming comments that way.

 

 

I am SO glad I'm Catholic! Seriously! Although I may disagree with things, I 100% know that the Catholic Church has one view on any matter I may encounter. From divorce to abortion, to social consciousness, the Church, the ONE Church has pretty much taken the guesswork out of where I must stand on any issues. Granted, I may think differently or question, but I have the resources available to help me understand the Catholic position.

 

I often, OFTEN get so confused by the differences between different Protestant denominations. For instance, 1st Baptist is different than Southern Baptist, which is different than Presbyterian, and Episcopalian is dfferent than all of them (although somewhat closer to Catholic).

 

Anyway, if each of these denominations are basing their teachings on the literal interpretation of God, why are each so widely divergent?

 

As to the situation you describe, I would be inclined to think that the sin of the divorce lies with the wife. It does not diminish the Pastor's ability to lead, IMO. He actually intended and was living what he believed, and his example while married should be considered. The fact that his wife apparantly wasn't as committed to the same ideals is not his fault. The same applies to leading a congregation. He may be as committed as ever, but some in his flock will stray. Even if they do, though, his duties as a leader aren't necessarily what should be questioned. We are each born with free will. The fact that some exercise it inappropriately, despite the best of leaders and support, is not the fault of the teacher.

 

JMO.

I must have skipped over the part where the Bible endorses human sacrifice.

 

Anyway, pastors and deacons should be looked at case by case. Even those like Hearsay's pastor needs to be looked at closely, because the Bible tells pastors that they're first priority is to take care of their family. If they are unable to do that, then how can they possbily take care of the family of God?

 

I was curious about that as well. Also, we must distinguish between things in the Old Testament that were abolished with the new covenant and the work that Christ accomplished on the cross.

1 Timothy 3:1-13

 

Overseers and Deacons

 

1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,^[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

11In the same way, their wives^[b] are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.