So you are simply doing what everyone else does; pick the issues of most importance to you and voting for the people you think can make them come about. Different people, different values, different votes. Not so much being hypocritical but more prioritizing one's values.

This is what I don't understand . . . you want the government tofix the abortion problem, but you don't want it to fix the hunger problem.

 

There is scripture that refers to JC and the unrelenting hound.

 

if you were the parent of an unloving child, when would you give up on the child and ultimately turn your back on them. i would say never. So God, who loves us much more than we can love our children, will never relent and will constantly be striving to win our affection.

I would love and think it is vital for the Church to continue to try and change people's minds about abortion outside of the legal realm. But since there is a Supreme Court case that stands on this issue, there are also legal ramifications that have to be addressed.

 

I do believe there are times that "hard love" is necessary.

So you are simply doing what everyone else does; pick the issues of most importance to you and voting for the people you think can make them come about. Different people, different values, different votes. Not so much being hypocritical but more prioritizing one's values.

 

That is my whole point. I am pro-choice and pro-healthcare for committed couples. I am also anti poverty and anti-suffering a pro-health care for all people. The latter three, you would think, are christian priorities, yet people will say I don't have good values b/c I don't support politicians who are pro-life and anti-gay marriage. I simply believe there are more values than those and the Christian right should stop telling the general public that b/c I am a liberal that I don't have values.

 

We should expand the definition of what Values Voting is and all Christians should look at the policies created by our government to see who they harm and who they benefit.

It is hypocritical if you feel free to use the government to cure some social ills, but suggest that you cannot use it to cure others.

 

I think the government can do a lot to cure the ills of the 46 million children without health care, so I will cast my votes for the politicians that want to help the children who are here. I will also cast votes for those who work to reduce the conditions that lead to abotion - better quality pre-natal care for poor women, work against systemic poverty, etc...

So do you place more faith in government or the church to solve society's woes?

That is my whole point. I am pro-choice and pro-healthcare for committed couples. I am also anti poverty and anti-suffering a pro-health care for all people. The latter three, you would think, are christian priorities, yet people will say I don't have good values b/c I don't support politicians who are pro-life and anti-gay marriage. I simply believe there are more values than those and the Christian right should stop telling the general public that b/c I am a liberal that I don't have values.

 

We should expand the definition of what Values Voting is and all Christians should look at the policies created by our government to see who they harm and who they benefit.

I agree that those are issues. I just feel the taking of one's life is a bigger issue than they not eating as well as they would like as far as this country is concerned. For the most part, if someone is hungry, there are places they can go or government programs to find somewhere to eat.

 

Hunger and poverty in this country is not the same as hunger and poverty around the world. If those are major issues with you, are you more concerned with the world hunger that is occurring in greater numbers and is life threatening in compared to the level in this country? People are dying of starvation in droves around the world while that is not happening in this country.

 

I have a huge concern about hunger and starvation and poor medical care but I look at what is going on in other countries and our poverty live in regal conditions to the way they live in Africa.

As far as health care is concern, I struggle on this issue. I understand the Christian mindset but I am slapped upside the face everyday of my worldly experienced.

 

The following is based ONLY on my experiences living in a rural community that I grew up in as a kid.

 

So many of the people I run into or have dealings with are people that I went to school with. People that for our school life 1st through 12th grade, no kindergarten when I was a wee youngster, constantly pointed out that they had no use for school. It didn't matter if they did well or not. School was stupid and they didn't need it.

 

Now here they stand with their life not where they wish it to be and they are upset. They don't have the training or the schooling they need to get the life they want. They don't have the proper heathcare but they have satellitte or cable, a fridge with a 12-pack in it and a pack of smokes rolled up in their sleeve. And they rail on government not providing them things.

 

I have had students that are missing proper clothing come winter time while there parents pick them up with a cigarette hanging from their mouth, talking about getting drunk on the weekends and allowing their children to smoke. Kid doesn't have a winter coat but he has a pack of cigarettes everyday.

 

Should we help the disabled both physically and mentally. Absolutely.

 

Should the government dutifully run into help those that are where they are because of THEIR choices. I don't know if they should.

 

Should the churches with mercy do that. Yes, I think they should because that is what Jesus would do.

 

I struggling and probably could classify it as sin that I need forgiveness from because my world experiences of people not wanting to help themselves but expecting someone else to do it for them colors my Christian view of the situation.

 

My view on government is that it should pick up where churches cannot be. Military, police, schools for those that don't want an education based on a religious faith, elections, medicine for those that are exceedingly unrealistic (I have a cousin that child has terrible mental handicaps and the medicine runs $5,000 a day) etc.

It is hypocritical if you feel free to use the government to cure some social ills, but suggest that you cannot use it to cure others.

 

I think the government can do a lot to cure the ills of the 46 million children without health care, so I will cast my votes for the politicians that want to help the children who are here. I will also cast votes for those who work to reduce the conditions that lead to abotion - better quality pre-natal care for poor women, work against systemic poverty, etc...

Where do you keep coming up with your 46 million number?

 

About 8.5 million children are uninsured. And that's down from 10.2 million 10 years ago.

Ace, are you doing anything to "help the poor"? Volunteer to help others, give money, used articles to groups, offer your time for kids in low income areas, write your leaders with your concerns, take someone to lunch, go on Missions trips? Writing on here is one thing but your actions speak...well you know.

Ace, are you doing anything to "help the poor"? Volunteer to help others, give money, used articles to groups, offer your time for kids in low income areas, write your leaders with your concerns, take someone to lunch, go on Missions trips? Writing on here is one thing but your actions speak...well you know.

 

Yes I do, and I will list the things if you so choose - do I do enough, not nearly - do I think our country/world would be better off if we expanded our notion of values votes and created policies that helped the poor YOU BET.

Yes I do, and I will list the things if you so choose - do I do enough, not nearly - do I think our country/world would be better off if we expanded our notion of values votes and created policies that helped the poor YOU BET.

So did God and Jesus call for the governments to do this or churches?

So did God and Jesus call for the governments to do this or churches?

 

They called for the PEOPLE to do this

 

Churches are People

Government is People (of, by and for . . .)

 

Again, why is it okay for Gov't to fix abortion, but not poverty, poor health, and social injustices?

No need to list what you do, I believe you. The women having these abortions need to stop. The Government can only do what they are allowed. I know folks who have adopted children when their Mothers chose the right thing to do, two are in my family.

They called for the PEOPLE to do this

 

Churches are People

Government is People (of, by and for . . .)

 

Again, why is it okay for Gov't to fix abortion, but not poverty, poor health, and social injustices?

Because back in the 70's government made a law in relation to abortion. That law would have to change.

 

Except I have already pointed out in another post that the best way to handle this is all of the things that churches have been doing to try and get people to CHOSE NOT TO have an abortion.

 

Again, I will ask you to provide the Scripture that God/Jesus indicates that their plans are for government to be the answer for society rather than the church?

 

This is not necessarily my view but the way I have read what God has said. Now if I am wrong or misguided on that, I would love to read the Scriptures that shows my mistaken belief.

Because back in the 70's government made a law in relation to abortion. That law would have to change.

 

Except I have already pointed out in another post that the best way to handle this is all of the things that churches have been doing to try and get people to CHOSE NOT TO have an abortion.

 

Again, I will ask you to provide the Scripture that God/Jesus indicates that their plans are for government to be the answer for society rather than the church?

 

This is not necessarily my view but the way I have read what God has said. Now if I am wrong or misguided on that, I would love to read the Scriptures that shows my mistaken belief.

 

Show me anywhere in the scripture where it says anything about democracy and freedom for the people. The government of the USA is us. it is made up of PEOPLE we elect, it is not some abstract substance that cannot be defined. the government does our bidding - regardless of how cynical we are.

 

Acts 6:1 Now during those days, when the disciples were increasing in number, the Hellenists complained against the hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution of food. And the 12 called together the whole community of the disciples and said, "it is not right that we should neglect the word of God n order to wait on tables. Therefor friends, select (vote on, elect??) from among yourselves seven men of good standing, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom you may APPOINT to this task. while we devote ourselves to prayer and to serving the word.

Show me anywhere in the scripture where it says anything about democracy and freedom for the people. The government of the USA is us. it is made up of PEOPLE we elect, it is not some abstract substance that cannot be defined. the government does our bidding - regardless of how cynical we are.

 

Acts 6:1 Now during those days, when the disciples were increasing in number, the Hellenists complained against the hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution of food. And the 12 called together the whole community of the disciples and said, "it is not right that we should neglect the word of God n order to wait on tables. Therefor friends, select (vote on, elect??) from among yourselves seven men of good standing, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom you may APPOINT to this task. while we devote ourselves to prayer and to serving the word.

And thus the first deacons were established in the early church to take care of such matter. They did nothing here to change the ruling government but changed the church to make sure the importance of the church taking care of the widows was not overlooked.

 

Do you think if Jesus focus was having a government be the organization to solve society's woes he would have a)overtaken the government of his day and establish one that did what he wanted instead of the one that he left in place that set 11 of his disciples up as martyrs and threw the 12th in prison; 2)established His church on Earth?