I hear everything you are saying but you are ignoring the Elephant in the room.

 

When a customer refuses to give up their seat in this (or similar) situation what is the proper course of action for Airline? Authorities? And is Force ever permissible when the customer is non-violent?

 

And while we are at it, just because the number is small is never a reason to allow anyone human being to be treated this way.

 

Well, you are equating a business practice that actually doesn't usually result in humans being mistreated in anyway other than inconvenience, with the outcome of a particular situation, at a particular time. I think you are refusing to separate this into the separate incidents that occurred to lead up to the worst possible outcome.

But by overbooking you are purposely giving a promise of a room, flight, car, etc that you are well aware is not necessarily going to be available. So I book a room in a hotel, go to check in and am informed that the hotel was overbooked (which is done on purpose) and that my room is not available. There is absolutely no way to rectify that situation that doesn't screw the customer over.

 

To me that's a predatory practice.

 

Well, that may be your feeling. But, no hotel intends to inconveniencryption a guest. But they do intend to fill their rooms. So, occasionally a guest will be "walked" due to overbooking. And sometimes it's because of other reasons. But there is no intent to screw the guest.

Well, that may be your feeling. But, no hotel intends to inconveniencryption a guest. But they do intend to fill their rooms. So, occasionally a guest will be "walked" due to overbooking. And sometimes it's because of other reasons. But there is no intent to screw the guest.

 

So in the unfortunate event that it happens, the customer is out of luck? Doesn't seem to be much concern for the customer if that's the case. What does the hotel do that will sufficiently make up for the hotel's screw up?

Well, you are equating a business practice that actually doesn't usually result in humans being mistreated in anyway other than inconvenience, with the outcome of a particular situation, at a particular time. I think you are refusing to separate this into the separate incidents that occurred to lead up to the worst possible outcome.

 

I think you are being evasive now.

 

This is a real situation that led to a horrible outcome.

 

I am sure it has happened a bunch of other times only there wasn't video of it.

 

Again, when a customer refuses to give up their seat in this (or similar) situation what is the proper course of action for Airline? Authorities? And is Force ever permissible when the customer is non-violent?

So in the unfortunate event that it happens, the customer is out of luck? Doesn't seem to be much concern for the customer if that's the case. What does the hotel do that will sufficiently make up for the hotel's screw up?

 

No. If you are walked, you will be given a hotel room at another hotel equal to or better than the one you originally booked, and paid for by the hotel you originally booked. You will be provided transportation to that hotel, and the original hotel will pay for a phone call for you to inform anyone who needs to know you have moved. If you are staying multiple nights you'll be moved back and usually another night will be comp.

I think you are being evasive now.

 

This is a real situation that led to a horrible outcome.

 

I am sure it has happened a bunch of other times only there wasn't video of it.

 

Again, when a customer refuses to give up their seat in this (or similar) situation what is the proper course of action for Airline? Authorities? And is Force ever permissible when the customer is non-violent?

 

I don't know what you think is evasive about my replies. I have stated I don't agree with the use of force.

No. If you are walked, you will be given a hotel room at another hotel equal to or better than the one you originally booked, and paid for by the hotel you originally booked. You will be provided transportation to that hotel, and the original hotel will pay for a phone call for you to inform anyone who needs to know you have moved. If you are staying multiple nights you'll be moved back and usually another night will be comp.

 

Thank you for answering. It sounds like you guys do everything you can to make it as little of an inconvenience as possible. :thumb:

 

If only the airlines would do the same.

I don't know what you think is evasive about my replies. I have stated I don't agree with the use of force.

 

If you don't agree with the use force (and think it shouldn't be allowed for a non-violent customer in this situation) then the end result is you are saying Airlines cannot bump anyone from a flight once they are on the plane.

 

Think about it, if no force was used the victim would have stayed on the flight, so no force means no ability to bump a passenger.

Thank you for answering. It sounds like you guys do everything you can to make it as little of an inconvenience as possible. :thumb:

 

If only the airlines would do the same.

 

I think they do. But they work within a different set of circumstances. So, for instance, this crew that needed to get to Louisville...it wasn't a whim or poor scheduling. It was because (due to fedeal regulations ) the originally scheduled crew wasn't going to be able to fly. And (due to federal regulations) the flight has to depart, so they have to get that flight out. How does federally regulating whether a passenger can be bumped help?

 

And again, if this were a chronic problem, I have no doubt everyone who is surprised that this happens, would have actually not been surprised at all.

 

Again, this was mishandled in just about every way possible. I just am pushing back on the premise that the industry as a whole had predatory practices and intends to screw the customer over.

 

By the way...doctors overbook too....

If you don't agree with the use force (and think it shouldn't be allowed for a non-violent customer in this situation) then the end result is you are saying Airlines cannot bump anyone from a flight once they are on the plane.

 

Think about it, if no force was used the victim would have stayed on the flight, so no force means no ability to bump a passenger.

 

No. That is not what I am saying. They should have dropped bumping Dr Dao and gone on to the next one. I've had to do that when attemping to walk a guest who became belligerent. And, I have had a guest throw his briefcase at me, and had another guest spit on me. And I still was able to resolve situations without force. But I had the right training and was given the right skill set.

No. That is not what I am saying. They should have dropped bumping Dr Dao and gone on to the next one. I've had to do that when attemping to walk a guest who became belligerent. And, I have had a guest throw his briefcase at me, and had another guest spit on me. And I still was able to resolve situations without force. But I had the right training and was given the right skill set.

 

Thank you for admitting that you DO NOT AGREE with the United Policy.

 

What you have stated in this post changes everything. This means you don't use force and that means no one can be bumped from a plane that doesn't want to be bumped from a plane in this type of situation.

Thank you for admitting that you DO NOT AGREE with the United Policy.

 

What you have stated in this post changes everything. This means you don't use force and that means no one can be bumped from a plane that doesn't want to be bumped from a plane in this type of situation.

 

I'm not sure why you are telling me what I am saying. Because I never said I agreed with the use of force to remove someone. I did say I don't think this is the norm. I did say the issue is in the customer service aspect first and foremost. And I also defended business practices I feel weren't understood and stated that said practices were not the reason for the incident.

I do not condone the use of force. I have stated that several times. And I have stated repeatedly I think this is a lapse in customer service skills, not a systemic abuse by airlines. Contrary to what apparently everyone believes about me, I am not a socialist, I'm not for big government and I am not for over regulation. I believe that businesses should be able to conduct their business largely without intrusion by the government. I do believe that predatory or abusive practices should be investigated. But I also know for a fact that the court of public opinion does not mean anything untoward was afoot. Sometimes there is a perfect storm, and crap happens, and the customer is made unhappy. It does not at all warrant the physical abuse Dr. Dao endured. HOWEVER the number of involuntary bumps is so small in relation the the number of successful trips, there is no way I see it a chronic problem, and certainly not a corporate abuse of anything.

 

Customer service of any sort is a tough business. Sometimes the wrong decision is made for the right reason. The right thing to do is to train staff to make these right decisions and handle conflict with the right skillset. It isn't to vilify an entire industry for the wrong decision.

 

We don't always agree but I agree with you 100%.

Would you not consider overbooking a predatory practice? If everyone shows up, you're purposely screwing innocent paying customers over.

 

This does not fit the definition of predatory business practice. It is efficent practice, obviously because there are very few bad examples. With the amount of flights that take place everyday if this were truly some epidemic wouldn't we have thousands of horror stories? This was more about over zealous removal than a bad business practice.

 

If you outlaw it here, you would have to outlaw it in almost all service industry businesses that are based on reservation.

Thank you for admitting that you DO NOT AGREE with the United Policy.

 

What you have stated in this post changes everything. This means you don't use force and that means no one can be bumped from a plane that doesn't want to be bumped from a plane in this type of situation.

 

Have you had a traumatic experience flying ? I see no other explanation for the soap box your taking on this issue. With all the problems in the world this grabs your passion?