And the right not to ID himself leaving the officer with the decision to arrest him or not for who knows what.

 

Then he has the right to remain silent.

 

Agreed. He always has that right whether he's detained or not.

And the right not to ID himself leaving the officer with the decision to arrest him or not for who knows what.

 

Again, the question doesn't center so much around the ID issue. Did the officer have a legal reason to detain?

And the right not to ID himself leaving the officer with the decision to arrest him or not for who knows what.

 

This is always grey to me. If detained, then you are saying you are not obligated to identify yourself, and that puts the burden of the next step on the police officer ?

Again, the question doesn't center so much around the ID issue. Did the officer have a legal reason to detain?

 

The powers that be need to clearly define these things. The cops get left taking the blame and cleaning up the mess.

This is always grey to me. If detained, then you are saying you are not obligated to identify yourself, and that puts the burden of the next step on the police officer ?

 

Correct, unless you are driving a vehicle.

The powers that be need to clearly define these things. The cops get left taking the blame and cleaning up the mess.

 

I don't doubt there is not enough guidance for the officers.

 

With this "Am I being detained (or detailed)" refrain being used so often now it would seem like a great idea to have a legal expert train departments in order to avoid problems.

 

You can't stop a guy and tell him he MUST comply even though there is no cause nor reasonable suspicion.

 

We've seen/read about incidents where SOME(key) officers get their feelings hurt when someone questions their authority when there is no suspicion of a crime. We need to avoid these potentially ugly scenarios.

Again, the question doesn't center so much around the ID issue. Did the officer have a legal reason to detain?

 

I read the article, if what is in that article is true then it doesn't appear the officer had a legal right to detain. The video is too long for me to watch.

Correct, unless you are driving a vehicle.

 

I can get with the driving a vehicle, because they are looking for valid operator license.

 

If I'm bee bopping down the road on my own leather, am asked to stop by a law enforcement official, I stop, ask if I'm being detained, answer is no, then I can just walk on down the road with no more responses.

 

I'm guessing that most of the general public are not aware of that and law enforcement officials are banking on that lack of knowledge.

I don't doubt there is not enough guidance for the officers.

 

With this "Am I being detained (or detailed)" refrain being used so often now it would seem like a great idea to have a legal expert train departments in order to avoid problems.

 

You can't stop a guy and tell him he MUST comply even though there is no cause nor reasonable suspicion.

 

We've seen/read about incidents where SOME(key) officers get their feelings hurt when someone questions their authority when there is no suspicion of a crime. We need to avoid these potentially ugly scenarios.

 

Oh, you mean you expect the actual people in charge (legislatures, Judges, Supreme Courts) to actually put their tails on the line vs. letting pawn police officers do it?

 

LOL

 

You really are funny Clyde.

I can get with the driving a vehicle, because they are looking for valid operator license.

 

If I'm bee bopping down the road on my own leather, am asked to stop by a law enforcement official, I stop, ask if I'm being detained, answer is no, then I can just walk on down the road with no more responses.

 

I'm guessing that most of the general public are not aware of that and law enforcement officials are banking on that lack of knowledge.

 

Correct and we can take it one further, you can completely ignore the officer and keep on bee bopping.

 

If I'm bee bopping down the road on my own leather, .

 

 

This short phrase is now in my Top 5 or 10 favorite expressions on BGP.

 

I'm going to steal "my own leather" quite often from now on.

Correct and we can take it one further, you can completely ignore the officer and keep on bee bopping.

 

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Legally able to do so YET when that ONE officer gets upset that he's "on is own leather" and TAKES him down or TAZES him THEN we get the "why didn't you just listen to officer and do what he says" crowd going.

 

No win. Heck, the officer may believe he's LEGALLY correct. No training on this issue leads to problems for ALL.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Legally able to do so YET when that ONE officer gets upset that he's "on is own leather" and TAKES him down or TAZES him THEN we get the "why didn't you just listen to officer and do what he says" crowd going.

 

No win. Heck, the officer may believe he's LEGALLY correct. No training on this issue leads to problems for ALL.

 

That is when you need one heck of a lawyer.

 

And for the record, I squarely blame the system for these kind of incidents. The system teachers officers all kinds of bull you know work arounds because officers lack the formal authority they need to do the job to the satisfaction of their superiors.

 

I often pointed this out to my superiors and our teachers at the state level and almost every time I did (or watched others do the same) I/they was/were chastised for not being a team player, being lazy, making excuses, blah blah blah, when everyone of those pieces of you know what knew deep down in that I (and the other officers that questioned them) were mostly right.

 

And I also believe Clyde that you are exactly right when you say some officers and trainers may believe they are legally correct. Way too much brainwashing and sweeping the important details under the rug.

 

Police Officers are Pawns and modern technology is exposing it, that is the real issue that needs to be addressed.

^ With all that said my advice to everyone is still, don't commit any crimes and cooperate with the police.