Correct. I know it sounds harsh, but it solves so many problems. You try to convince your freshmen to go find some friends who want to fill out the team, or the coach makes some tough decisions and plays with a JV/Varsity squad only.

 

Let kids be kids .. it goes by so fast as it is. We don't need to be rushing Susie in to the high school ranks, especially if it's just to solve the high school coach's problem. I don't care if Susie is as good as Jamie Walz was. She was a rare talent, and would have been just as good if she waited until the 9th grade to lace 'em up.

 

Okay, understand what you're saying, but you are contradicting yourself a little with your reasoning. You say let them be kids and don't push them upward when talking about the 8th graders. Yet your answer for the 5 freshman girls that would like to play freshman ball is to move them up! So do those 5 freshman not get included in the "let them be kids and play at their level" argument. That's just tough luck. If you want to play, you are "forced" to move up. I understand that your "no exceptions" may fix a lot of issues, but there are other issues it creates. So it fixes issues that are important to you, but if I'm a parent of one of those 5 freshman girls, it creates a huge issue for me!

OK, so you move 8th graders up to play with the 5 freshman and now the 8th grade team only has 4 players. Now you've just transfreed the problem to the middle school.

OK, so you move 8th graders up to play with the 5 freshman and now the 8th grade team only has 4 players. Now you've just transfreed the problem to the middle school.

 

Well the hope is that somewhere along the line you have some numbers. You'd only have to move up 2 8th graders. And if that has an impact on the 8th grade team, then if you have to, you move up a couple 7th graders. Somewhere along the line, I would think you have numbers to cover it. If you don't, you have bigger issues than worrying about moving kids up!

No easy answer I guess. Big schools in middle school league are not allowed to move up 6th to 7th or 7th to 8th.I think you should play for the school you go to, but no matter what you do, someone will not be happy

I would think if I was a high school coach I would want a strong feeder program but if you take 8th graders to fill out your freshman team, you weaken your middle school teams

I do think if an 8th grader can play with the varsity team she should probably do so but when my daughter was a freshman she played varsity and came home telling us some of the seniors were talking about having sex, drinking beer and smoking pot, you have other issues also

So , applying your logic to academics, if you are an intellectually gifted student who is not challenged by the middle school grade their age dictates they place, do you keep them there even though they are not challenged by an age appropriate curriculum?

 

I think you are correct academically. But should a 13 yr old be exposed to a 17 yr olds ( probably age appropriate ) conversations? Kids have plenty of time to grow up. Why fast track it an expose them

to inappropriate age level conversations. kids should be playing sports for what it teaches them. What should be the most important thing in consideration is helping them grow into solid productive adults.

I think to many adults (meaning parents)preasure kids moving up so the adult can feel better about themselves and lose site of the bigger prize.

Heck Just like this site. Most often it's a parent or aau coach trying to self promote their interest on this site. I've learned to take talk on here about certain players with a grain of salt. I often watch expecting to see a star only to leave somewhat disappointed in most instances. I strongly agree with your comment that playing time is earned. That holds true with great coaches and programs but I often see so many get caught up in the hype when the stats and play don't prove out. One aau coach on here commented about a certain player being a great distributor and smart player but a defensive liability (paraphrasing on my part). Calls them a great player. I will discount that coaches opinions from now on. The last I checked if you can't play defense then your not great. What about the other intangibles? Do you have the quickness and ability to creat your own shot

Etc.... You get the point.

Heck Just like this site. Most often it's a parent or aau coach trying to self promote their interest on this site. I've learned to take talk on here about certain players with a grain of salt. I often watch expecting to see a star only to leave somewhat disappointed in most instances. I strongly agree with your comment that playing time is earned. That holds true with great coaches and programs but I often see so many get caught up in the hype when the stats and play don't prove out. One aau coach on here commented about a certain player being a great distributor and smart player but a defensive liability (paraphrasing on my part). Calls them a great player. I will discount that coaches opinions from now on. The last I checked if you can't play defense then your not great. What about the other intangibles? Do you have the quickness and ability to creat your own shot

Etc.... You get the point.

Agree!! My question is always...why does the kid play basketball? Do they play because they love it & are having fun? Are they playing because a parent put a ball in their hands in hopes they'll be the 1% to play at the next level or because the parent wanted to be something big so they'll make sure their kid will? I can guarantee that most 12/13 yr old players would not come up with the idea to play up on their own just like they wouldn't choose to sit on a Varsity bench when they could play or be the star on their MS team!! Too much pressure at a young age is destructive both physically & mentally!! The parent that thinks their kid is in that 1% & pushes too much too soon will wind up watching a kid that at first played because they loved it turn into burning out & resenting the sport!!! Back off & let the kid be a kid!! Kids can do some amazing things when we step back & watch them have fun on their own!!

In my opinion, girls are different maturity-wise and some are ready in middle school to play at that level. I say play the best players. And what about the schools with very low enrollment? I'll use Rose Hill for example. If they don't field a team with some middle schoolers they don't field a team. I'd hate to put a blanket rule out there forbidding it, and hanging a program with too few kids otherwise. Not everyone has an angle like some here would like to portray.

 

I totally agree with you. Some schools that are smaller and especially the independent schools, may be K-12 for example. They may need the middle schoolers to fill a team. Then comes the age factor a 13 year old 8th grader compared to a 15 year old 8th grader. You may have sophomores in your highschool that are not even as old as some 8th graders. Its the parents that try to cheat the system just like everything else.. You are correct Spindoc

I think you are correct academically. But should a 13 yr old be exposed to a 17 yr olds ( probably age appropriate ) conversations? Kids have plenty of time to grow up. Why fast track it an expose them

to inappropriate age level conversations. kids should be playing sports for what it teaches them. What should be the most important thing in consideration is helping them grow into solid productive adults.

I think to many adults (meaning parents)preasure kids moving up so the adult can feel better about themselves and lose site of the bigger prize.

Not sure when parents decided that their kids got to move up. That's a coaching decision.

And for those of you that are so concerned, please go to your school board and petition that way. Demand that age/grade appropriation take place. There's no KHSAA mandate that says individual members can't have their own guidelines in this arena. That way the 8th grader that is better than your junior will have to wait her turn.

Middle school girls basketball season starts in august in our area (central ky) it is over by Nov 1. A handful of middle school girls are usually asked to play F/JV or even Varsity if their skill level merits it. The best players should play regardless of grade. I think Spindoc nailed it in his last post. I believe that is the issue most have with MS girls playing up. An 8th grader is playing ahead of their daughter and it hurts some feelings a little bit.

I think you are correct academically. But should a 13 yr old be exposed to a 17 yr olds ( probably age appropriate ) conversations? Kids have plenty of time to grow up. Why fast track it an expose them

to inappropriate age level conversations. kids should be playing sports for what it teaches them. What should be the most important thing in consideration is helping them grow into solid productive adults.

I think to many adults (meaning parents)preasure kids moving up so the adult can feel better about themselves and lose site of the bigger prize.

 

Very valid points with the exposure issue. But again, may be dependent on the specific situation. If the girl has an older sibling, she is already exposed to it more than you think. I know dads don't want to hear that!!!!...but it's reality. So if she is the oldest and you are trying to protect her as longs as possible...I totally get it. But if she has older siblings...too late! I only say that because my feeling is it should be specific to each kid and each families discretion. I think if that family feels their daughter is ready, they should have that choice. Will some families make some bad decisions...sure! But if they are making bad decisions on whether to move their child up either they will learn from it or they or making more bad decisions in other areas anyway.

 

If my daughter has the ability, skill, body and mind to play up, no one should be able to tell me if she should or can. Just the way I feel. I want her challenged, just like I would academically. Has nothing to do with with pushing her too far or wanting glory for me or her. It has to do with making sure she is challenged and is pushed. Why would this be any different than anything else in life. Everything we do should be to help us get better and not getting comfortable. In ANYTHING we do, we set goals to reach a plateau and then when we do, what's next? Set another goal! It applies to sports as much as anything else. Keep pushing.

 

I can tell you right now...I have an 8th grade daughter that could absolutely play up in high school. Highlands MS principal has made his own rule that none of his MS kids can play up anymore. The Barth girls was grandfathered in because she was in the HS program before he made the rule. So my daughter and one of her best friends (who is also very good) will be playing 8th grade this year. In the 6th and 7th grade, the only challenging games and time that those two actually played more than a quarter at the same time were against Conner, Another very good team. In the past two years, the two really good girls on the HHS team were lucky to avg half a game. NOW, all the other schools have basically move up anyone that was good. So the last two years, most games ended with "slow down, no layups and we have to make 5 passes before we shoot". Now with the good 8th graders gone and our two still playing 8th grade, please tell me what my daughter is going to get out of her 8th grade bball season athletically. Just my opinion, but her and her friend may not get challenged one time this year. That's not being cocky, it's reality. That's not what I want and it's not what she wants. She loves competition and she will get none. Her and her friend are in the same grade as the barth girl and still can't play with her for another year because of a silly rulle...when she have the ability and the body to do so. Heck, she's bigger and stronger than my JR that has started at PG since the 8th grade!!!

Heck Just like this site. Most often it's a parent or aau coach trying to self promote their interest on this site. I've learned to take talk on here about certain players with a grain of salt. I often watch expecting to see a star only to leave somewhat disappointed in most instances. I strongly agree with your comment that playing time is earned. That holds true with great coaches and programs but I often see so many get caught up in the hype when the stats and play don't prove out. One aau coach on here commented about a certain player being a great distributor and smart player but a defensive liability (paraphrasing on my part). Calls them a great player. I will discount that coaches opinions from now on. The last I checked if you can't play defense then your not great. What about the other intangibles? Do you have the quickness and ability to creat your own shot

Etc.... You get the point.

 

Absolutely get the point and know exactly what you're talking about.

Agree!! My question is always...why does the kid play basketball? Do they play because they love it & are having fun? Are they playing because a parent put a ball in their hands in hopes they'll be the 1% to play at the next level or because the parent wanted to be something big so they'll make sure their kid will? I can guarantee that most 12/13 yr old players would not come up with the idea to play up on their own just like they wouldn't choose to sit on a Varsity bench when they could play or be the star on their MS team!! Too much pressure at a young age is destructive both physically & mentally!! The parent that thinks their kid is in that 1% & pushes too much too soon will wind up watching a kid that at first played because they loved it turn into burning out & resenting the sport!!! Back off & let the kid be a kid!! Kids can do some amazing things when we step back & watch them have fun on their own!!

 

I agree with all of this, but there are kids that do come up with in on there own and want the competition too. I had an AAU org for about 8 years. I saw both kinds. And yes, there are a lot of overzealous parents. But there are a lot of very competitive kids that want it for themselves too. We should not generically stamp every family that has a kid playing up as having overzealous parents. Not always the case.

Example. I coach softball at HHS. We have a freshman, jv and varsity team. We have carried right around 38 players for the two years I have been there. Highlands is a mid-sized school. Out of those 38 players in our program, the most high school kids we've had in the entire program has been 14. So if MS kids were not allowed to play up, we would have no freshman program or JV! Yet I have 25 MS kids that would love to learn the game and play. Should they not be allowed? What happens to my varsity program over time if I can't get any of those kids early? I tell you what happens...it goes away. For two years, our we had MS starters and the first 4-5 kids off our bench were MS kids. Without MS kids, we have no program. And we won the region last year!