I am not here to judge.

 

This line, amidst all of your posts in this thread before and since her suicide, rates incredibly high on the unintentional comedy scale.

 

You're judging her like a banshee, at least own it. You are steadfast in your beliefs, which I respect (regardless of whether or not I agree with you), but to say "I am not here to judge" seems comical.

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All dogs go to heaven....

 

They had better not bark or poop on my cloud or I'm kicking them out!

When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

 

Ouch, that one hurt.

 

Lastly, how does anyone know animals don't have souls? That is only a product of the arrogance of man.

 

They were not created in the image and likeness of God. We are called to care for and respect animals because God created them. I guess they may be in heaven, but they cannot be there based on their actions because they have no morality. Perhaps this is for another thread.

 

I understand what you are saying. And I know you're not trying to instill guilt. But there is a difference in living, and "living". Merely being physically present isn't "living". "Life" is about the quality of the experience, the ability to know and appreciate the gifts of God.

 

Absolutely there is a difference between living and existing. I think we have to care for and respect those who just exist because they are a creation of God, making them sacred.

Ouch, that one hurt.

 

 

 

They were not created in the image and likeness of God. We are called to care for and respect animals because God created them. I guess they may be in heaven, but they cannot be there based on their actions because they have no morality. Perhaps this is for another thread.

 

 

Absolutely there is a difference between living and existing. I think we have to care for and respect those who just exist because they are a creation of God, making them sacred.

 

 

So...I have to ask...how far, exactly, do you feel it is necessary to prolong life? To what extreme, I mean.

This line, amidst all of your posts in this thread before and since her suicide, rates incredibly high on the unintentional comedy scale.

 

You're judging her like a banshee, at least own it. You are steadfast in your beliefs, which I respect (regardless of whether or not I agree with you), but to say "I am not here to judge" seems comical.

 

When I say "to judge" I mean to decide one's eternal salvation, ie will they go to Heaven or Hell.

 

I assume we are using different definitions of the word.

So...I have to ask...how far, exactly, do you feel it is necessary to prolong life? To what extreme, I mean.

 

I can't give a 100% timeline or solid answer because the details of every deathly medical case are different in themselves, and like another universe to me.

 

I do however think we should do whatever it takes to protect life. If you could give a specific case maybe I could give a better answer. I apologize as I'm sure this isn't what you were looking for.

When I say "to judge" I mean to decide one's eternal salvation, ie will they go to Heaven or Hell.

 

I assume we are using different definitions of the word.

 

Yeah, see, I was 100% certain you weren't now, nor ever, going to be deciding anyone's eternal salvation, so yes, safe to assume we are using different definitions of the word. Are you serious? When you say "I am not here to judge" you meant to clarify for us that you weren't the one deciding on her eternal salvation? Well, gee, thanks for clearing that up. That will save me a great deal of consternation.

Yeah, see, I was 100% certain you weren't now, nor ever, going to be deciding anyone's eternal salvation, so yes, safe to assume we are using different definitions of the word. Are you serious? When you say "I am not here to judge" you meant to clarify for us that you weren't the one deciding on her eternal salvation? Well, gee, thanks for clearing that up. That will save me a great deal of consternation.

 

That's just how I think of the word... I think it is overused today and I firmly believe in the quote "Only God can judge me." I like to take the definition of "to judge" from that context.

 

I don't see how matters of morality can be subjective. I view them as objective and sometimes I share the objective view of what is presented to me. So I am relaying what I see as right or wrong. Most of the readers on here see morality as subjective, so to them I am judging.

 

I hope this makes sense. So yes, in the subjective eyes (not a negative comment, just a comment) of the readers here I am judging.

 

Objectively I don't believe I am. I believe I am sharing the objectiveness of whatever it is I am responding to. I thank you for your accusation (no, really) so that I can work to make my posts appear less-judgmental in the future.

Some additional thoughts:

 

For those of us who wish to choose the way they die, it's not that we don't value life. It's that we value the quality of the life we have, however long or short that may be. I don't want to just exist. I don't want to spend the last days of my life in so much pain from treatments that I can't fully appreciate what I have been given...the love of my kids, my grandchildren, my dogs... I want to my family to be able to come to terms with my death without the false hopes that extreme measures bring. I want my family to accept that death is inevitable, but it doesn't have to be without choice. I want my family to remember me for myself, not a series of treatments, hospital stays and doctor's appointments. When I think of my dad these days, most often the first 2 memories are of the burns on his body and him coughing up blood clots from internal burns; and the very last two days when he was delusional, then unconscious. The last most likely would have happened regardless. But the weeks of watching the effects from radiation really had an impact on me. I will always admire and appreciate my dad's indomitable will. But it breaks my heart that despite that will, that pain, he wasn't able to go home to die, which was what his goal was. I absolutely feel the way my dad died exemplified the way he lived his life, refusing to accept he couldn't change the things that stood in his way. It's one of the two defining characteristics of my dad, along with his utter selflessness. But, although I'm definitely a fighter, I will not fight the inevitable. I don't feel that is any less appreciative of God's gift of life, but simply one who accepts that life must end.

I don't see how matters of morality can be subjective. I view them as objective and sometimes I share the objective view of what is presented to me. So I am relaying what I see as right or wrong. Most of the readers on here see morality as subjective, so to them I am judging.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I admire you for your steadfast stance on issues you believe in, regardless of my personal opinion on the matter. Additionally, I think this point (above) perfectly sums up the disconnect that many are finding in this thread. For you it is black and white, for others there are several shades of grey. Makes for a healthy debate, to be sure.

Something that occurred to me, did not Jesus in effect commit suicide? Could he not have saved himself? Have not many martyrs done the equivalent when they could have saved themselves? Does this mean that suicide in some cases is justified?