There are three parts we must look at to determine if a choice is "right" or "wrong" (in an objective, observative, non-judgmental point of view).

 

A choice is made up of the 1. Intent, 2. The action itself, and 3. The results of the choice. In order for the choice to be "right," ALL 3 must be right. If one of the three parts is "wrong," then the choice [action] altogether is wrong.

 

1. The intent - Brittany is suffering and wants to suffer no more. It is not the choice I would make but objectively it is okay.

 

2. The action itself - Brittany is committing suicide. Suicide is 100% objectively wrong (perhaps there's an exception in cases of mental instability). So the action itself is wrong.

 

3. The end results - Brittany (and maybe her family, we do not know) is no longer suffering, physically. Again, objectively there is no problem.

 

As mentioned in #2, this is objectively the wrong choice. Our life is a gift from God. To destroy it is wrong no matter what the circumstances. If you were given a gift that you did not deserve it is wrong to destroy it.

 

 

 

Maybe you are right, perhaps I should not have tried to compare the two. I'll always be the first to admit I was wrong, and I was in comparing the two.

 

But here is my response to the bolded. What if I were to commit murder? Would you say that's wrong? Well, as long as "my circumstances" call for it then its okay.

 

I'm not a "black and white" person, admittedly. So, when you ask if you were to commit murder, I'd have to ask more questions. For instance: Why? What was your mental state?

 

Even a murder can be justified in certain cases. I am a firm believer that one cannot apply a strict black and white answer to every situation. Life is the gray area, in my opinion. There are thousands of examples that one can cite that we could debate: Stealing, murder, suicide, etc. It's not the act that can be judged, it's the intent in one's heart when the act is committed.

 

I will add that Brittany's intent was not only to end her own suffering, but the suffering of her loved ones who would watch her die.

Help other people? Encouraging people to kill themselves rather than face their problems is not helping them. Suicide is never the answer.

 

Many people obviously disagree with you. Having the courage to choose your own time and place, taking control of the process, helping those close to you by giving them a set time of your demise. Perhaps saving a lot of anguish for those around you who would have to witness your pain and suffering. All of these could help other people in similar circumstances. Suicide obviously is an answer to some people in some circumstances. Just because it's not our way or we may not understand it, does not mean it is not an answer for others.

I'm not a "black and white" person, admittedly. So, when you ask if you were to commit murder, I'd have to ask more questions. For instance: Why? What was your mental state?

 

Even a murder can be justified in certain cases. I am a firm believer that one cannot apply a strict black and white answer to every situation. Life is the gray area, in my opinion. There are thousands of examples that one can cite that we could debate: Stealing, murder, suicide, etc. It's not the act that can be judged, it's the intent in one's heart when the act is committed.

 

I will add that Brittany's intent was not only to end her own suffering, but the suffering of her loved ones who would watch her die.

 

If I intend to drive my car to the store but I accidentally run over and kill somebody, everything is okay? I did not mean to harm anybody (even though I did) so its no big deal.

 

Intentions mean almost nothing. What actually happens, happens.

If I intend to drive my car to the store but I accidentally run over and kill somebody, everything is okay? I did not mean to harm anybody (even though I did) so its no big deal.

 

Intentions mean almost nothing. What actually happens, happens.

 

What about a woman who is being beaten by her husband, and defends herself by stabbing or shooting someone? She meant to harm him, but she was defending herself. What if you meant to drive yourself into a store because you're not mentally "all there" for some reason? Why did you want to drive your car into a store? Intentions, I argue, mean EVERYTHING.

What about a woman who is being beaten by her husband, and defends herself by stabbing or shooting someone? She meant to harm him, but she was defending herself. What if you meant to drive yourself into a store because you're not mentally "all there" for some reason? Why did you want to drive your car into a store? Intentions, I argue, mean EVERYTHING.

 

If a woman is being beaten by her husband, I have no problem with her shooting her husband if thats what it takes to PROTECT her life. If I'm not mentally all there, I should not be driving/living alone.

 

When I said "intentions mean almost nothing" I was referring to my specific example, but it still applies nonetheless.

 

If a loved one were killed by someone with a mental disorder, I think I would still be upset regardless. I would not be upset with the disordered person, but I would be upset with the able person in charge of taking care of the disordered person.

 

"What if the person with the disorder had no caretaker?" Too many other factors (does he/she have a family, does he/she have friends, have they seeked help, etc.). We could play "What if" forever but that fact is somebody has to be responsible for every human action.

 

 

So back to Brittany, destroying her own life is putting her own will before God's will. That is why its wrong, despite the circumstances.

 

So back to Brittany, destroying her own life is putting her own will before God's will. That is why its wrong, despite the circumstances.

 

To stay on topic so we don't derail a great discussion:

 

I don't think she destroyed her own life. I think she chose the way she wanted her life to end. And while I understand the concern regarding disavowing God's will, I'm firmly in the camp that only she and God know what His will was for her. Is it God's will that she suffer a long and painful lingering to death? Was it God's will that her family watch her in that condition? I can't answer that. That is for God to decide. And then there's the issue of the Free Will that God graced us with. Isn't it possible that our Free Will and God's Will coincides, although from the outside looking in, we don't see it?

I was watching a NatGeo Wild episode about lions killing other lions. It was a mystery why they would do this, then after much investigation, they found that the distemper virus combined with a parasite was causing progressive extreme seizures in affected lions. The video was horrific. The seizures would so upset the other lions that they would attack and kill the sick lion. Now, did they do this because they were disturbed by the seizures or as a response to end the sick lion's misery? Who knows.

 

However, this girl had a brain tumor that is a progressing illness causing extreme seizures. She knows it, and her family and circle of friends know it. NONE of them wish this on her, and THEY all respect her decision. To suffer through that kind of misery to oneself and others because of what one person or even many people thinks doesn't make sense to me. Additionally, I don't think there are any of us qualified to judge.

I was watching a NatGeo Wild episode about lions killing other lions. It was a mystery why they would do this, then after much investigation, they found that the distemper virus combined with a parasite was causing progressive extreme seizures in affected lions. The video was horrific. The seizures would so upset the other lions that they would attack and kill the sick lion. Now, did they do this because they were disturbed by the seizures or as a response to end the sick lion's misery? Who knows.

 

However, this girl had a brain tumor that is a progressing illness causing extreme seizures. She knows it, and her family and circle of friends know it. NONE of them wish this on her, and THEY all respect her decision. To suffer through that kind of misery to oneself and others because of what one person or even many people thinks doesn't make sense to me. Additionally, I don't think there are any of us qualified to judge.

 

Let's not compare humans to animals now. Animals have no eternal life so their actions cannot be classified in the same way as ours.

 

I agree it is not our place to judge and hope I did not come off that way. I was merely trying to objectively share what I've seen/read about.

 

To stay on topic so we don't derail a great discussion:

 

I don't think she destroyed her own life. I think she chose the way she wanted her life to end. And while I understand the concern regarding disavowing God's will, I'm firmly in the camp that only she and God know what His will was for her. Is it God's will that she suffer a long and painful lingering to death? Was it God's will that her family watch her in that condition? I can't answer that. That is for God to decide. And then there's the issue of the Free Will that God graced us with. Isn't it possible that our Free Will and God's Will coincides, although from the outside looking in, we don't see it?

 

That's a fair point. You are right, in the big picture we do not know God's will. I would like to think the time for our life to end is natural death and that we should prolong our life as long as possible.

 

But in the end like you said, it is God's will, and we truly do not and cannot know the ultimate decision regarding Brittany's salvation.

Let's not compare humans to animals now. Animals have no eternal life so their actions cannot be classified in the same way as ours.

 

I agree it is not our place to judge and hope I did not come off that way. I was merely trying to objectively share what I've seen/read about.

 

 

 

That's a fair point. You are right, in the big picture we do not know God's will. I would like to think the time for our life to end is natural death and that we should prolong our life as long as possible.

 

But in the end like you said, it is God's will, and we truly do not and cannot know the ultimate decision regarding Brittany's salvation.

 

So, the point of prolonging our life as long as possible...I absolutely am against that for myself. I absolutely want no extraordinary measures to prolong my life. That includes things like chemo and radiation. Some people these days don't even see those as extraordinary measures. But if there is no chance it will eradicate what ails me, then I want to (at least) live what life I have remaining without the added suffering of such treatments. I watched my father go through everything he went through, and I will not do that to my kids. I don't blame my dad for what he chose. But I know that I cannot put my kids through the experience I went through with my dad. Luckily, I have had the opportunity to discuss this with my kids and they understand and are supportive of what I have decided. But for others looking in from the outside, I know they'll say I should have "fought" or "there is always a chance". But in the end, for me, I have already decided how I want my life to end, regardless of the ailment that brings me down. Even though I don't see myself choosing to end my life as Brittany did, I can certainly do everything in my power to die on my own terms, and spare my family a lot of pain.

So, the point of prolonging our life as long as possible...I absolutely am against that for myself. I absolutely want no extraordinary measures to prolong my life. That includes things like chemo and radiation. Some people these days don't even see those as extraordinary measures. But if there is no chance it will eradicate what ails me, then I want to (at least) live what life I have remaining without the added suffering of such treatments. I watched my father go through everything he went through, and I will not do that to my kids. I don't blame my dad for what he chose. But I know that I cannot put my kids through the experience I went through with my dad. Luckily, I have had the opportunity to discuss this with my kids and they understand and are supportive of what I have decided. But for others looking in from the outside, I know they'll say I should have "fought" or "there is always a chance". But in the end, for me, I have already decided how I want my life to end, regardless of the ailment that brings me down. Even though I don't see myself choosing to end my life as Brittany did, I can certainly do everything in my power to die on my own terms, and spare my family a lot of pain.

 

 

 

I feel exactly the same way as Rockmom. I am hoping the day is later rather than sooner. And to me, it is not a life thrown away...I have had a wonderful, blessed life, and I do not want any part of it to be a burden on my family or friends.

 

On the same vein...I saw a good saying at lunch.

 

When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

 

Lastly, how does anyone know animals don't have souls? That is only a product of the arrogance of man.

So, the point of prolonging our life as long as possible...I absolutely am against that for myself. I absolutely want no extraordinary measures to prolong my life. That includes things like chemo and radiation. Some people these days don't even see those as extraordinary measures. But if there is no chance it will eradicate what ails me, then I want to (at least) live what life I have remaining without the added suffering of such treatments. I watched my father go through everything he went through, and I will not do that to my kids. I don't blame my dad for what he chose. But I know that I cannot put my kids through the experience I went through with my dad. Luckily, I have had the opportunity to discuss this with my kids and they understand and are supportive of what I have decided. But for others looking in from the outside, I know they'll say I should have "fought" or "there is always a chance". But in the end, for me, I have already decided how I want my life to end, regardless of the ailment that brings me down. Even though I don't see myself choosing to end my life as Brittany did, I can certainly do everything in my power to die on my own terms, and spare my family a lot of pain.

 

I'm not judging you or trying to instill guilt. Please try to see what you're saying...

 

So, the point of prolonging our life as long as possible...I absolutely am against that for myself. [/Quote]

 

It is important to remember that life is a gift. A sacred one. We are ALL created in the image and likeness of God, making human life more valuable than any other thing, creature or anything else in the existence of the universe. There were 415 people killed in Chicago in 2013 alone. I bet they wish they still had this gift of life.

 

 

 

Again, I am not judging you or your family or anybody. I respect that you are thinking of your children first, but I fear you are sacrificing the most sacred thing ever to exist in the history of the universe.

I feel exactly the same way as Rockmom. I am hoping the day is later rather than sooner. And to me, it is not a life thrown away...I have had a wonderful, blessed life, and I do not want any part of it to be a burden on my family or friends.

 

On the same vein...I saw a good saying at lunch.

 

When you are dead, you don't that you ar dead. It is only difficult for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

 

Lastly, how does anyone know animals don't have souls? That is only a product of the arrogance of man.

 

 

All dogs go to heaven....

I feel exactly the same way as Rockmom. I am hoping the day is later rather than sooner. And to me, it is not a life thrown away...I have had a wonderful, blessed life, and I do not want any part of it to be a burden on my family or friends.

 

On the same vein...I saw a good saying at lunch.

 

When you are dead, you don't that you ar dead. It is only difficult for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid.

 

Lastly, how does anyone know animals don't have souls? That is only a product of the arrogance of man.

 

I am with you here as well. I watch domesticated animals interact with each other, and each other (don't know any wild ones.), and I am sorely tested to believe what I was taught in religion classes. While they may not have the ability to discern right vs. wrong, I do believe that they have souls. I believe that animals possess a soul that is forever in the stay of the youngest humans...untouched by the humans later mind to mar its purity.

 

I know...fire away. :lol2:

I'm not judging you or trying to instill guilt. Please try to see what you're saying...

 

 

 

It is important to remember that life is a gift. A sacred one. We are ALL created in the image and likeness of God, making human life more valuable than any other thing, creature or anything else in the existence of the universe. There were 415 people killed in Chicago in 2013 alone. I bet they wish they still had this gift of life.

 

 

 

Again, I am not judging you or your family or anybody. I respect that you are thinking of your children first, but I fear you are sacrificing the most sacred thing ever to exist in the history of the universe.

 

I understand what you are saying. And I know you're not trying to instill guilt. But there is a difference in living, and "living". Merely being physically present isn't "living". "Life" is about the quality of the experience, the ability to know and appreciate the gifts of God.