Football: What is it?

[Little Ram]

What would you define football as today? What would you define football thirty years ago? Is football the same or is it different? What about the rule changes? What is a legal hit and what is an illegal hit?

 

Is football beginning to diminish as a physical sport? I was watching the Steelers game the other day and a defender put a good stick on Big Ben and they flagged it. Below is a link to the hit. What is wrong with the hit? I can go on and on about the rules. Why are we softening the sport? Thought or concerns?

 

 

[video=youtube;mcm6H-NZV0k]

[Ram]

People put you in a position where if you say something about the rules being too soft you are against "safety" and automatically wrong.

 

That hit on Big Ben was a legal, appropriate, non-helmet to helmet hit. Should not have been a penalty.

 

Comparing over the years is difficult, the guys that played 40 years ago were much tougher then players are now, but the current players are much bigger, stronger and understand the game of football much better. Over the years I have seen the trickle down affect, things that were done only in the NFL have tricked down to College football, then trickled on down to High School. Not just the play calling, but the preparation. High School football players put more preparation time in now with more weightlifting, more film study, more preparation for the mental aspects then they did just a short time ago. Film study has changed at the high school level dramatically.

 

The size and speed of high school football players alone are probably one of the major though processes for the "safety" changes. Seeing a 6'5" 280 linemen was a rarity 20 years ago, but now just about every team has one, or three. High School coaches do a much better job of teaching the philosophy of football to their players now. Used to the coach would say "do it this way because I said so", now they explain the reason, the technique, the counter-technicque, and differing options. High School coaching has become more like college coaching over the years. The offenses are more complicated, the defenses are more complicated, the expectations are higher.

 

I want to hear from Harry Doyle on this subject.

[Little Ram]

People put you in a position where if you say something about the rules being too soft you are against "safety" and automatically wrong. That hit on Big Ben was a legal' date=' appropriate, non-helmet to helmet hit. Should not have been a penalty. Comparing over the years is difficult, the guys that played 40 years ago were much tougher then players are now, but the current players are much bigger, stronger and understand the game of football much better. Over the years I have seen the trickle down affect, things that were done only in the NFL have tricked down to College football, then trickled on down to High School. Not just the play calling, but the preparation. High School football players put more preparation time in now with more weightlifting, more film study, more preparation for the mental aspects then they did just a short time ago. Film study has changed at the high school level dramatically. The size and speed of high school football players alone are probably one of the major though processes for the "safety" changes. Seeing a 6'5" 280 linemen was a rarity 20 years ago, but now just about every team has one, or three. High School coaches do a much better job of teaching the philosophy of football to their players now. Used to the coach would say "do it this way because I said so", now they explain the reason, the technique, the counter-technicque, and differing options. High School coaching has become more like college coaching over the years. The offenses are more complicated, the defenses are more complicated, the expectations are higher. I want to hear from Harry Doyle on this subject.[/quote']

 

I agree with the mental aspect. It is a 90% mental sport and 10% physical. What about the physical?

[Jumper_Dad]

Size and speed of the players has completely changed the game over the last 30 years.

 

When I was in HS 200lb was average O-Line...when my son was in High School we averaged 300lb on 4 of 5 starting linemen.

 

It used to be you were either fast or big, now guys with size have speed as well.

[Ram]

I agree with the mental aspect. It is a 90% mental sport and 10% physical. What about the physical?

The physical is just the size. 40 years ago, players would hit you, and you may not get up. They were tough. But, today those same hits are coming from much bigger, stronger and faster players. Physics dictates that a larger mass moving at a faster speed is going to cause more damage then an smaller object moving as slower speed.

[Little Ram]

The physical is just the size. 40 years ago' date=' players would hit you, and may not get up. They were tough. But, today those same hits are coming from much bigger, stronger and faster players. Physics dictates that a larger mass moving at a faster speed is going to cause more damage then an smaller object moving as slower speed.[/quote']

 

Agreed. But the physics may balance out of the opposing object is also bigger. If that larger mass is going faster and it hits a larger object, should it balance out? That hit on Big Ben was a larger hit by a larger and faster body. But Ben is a larger man as well, he got up.

 

What I'm saying is, shouldn't you prepare to be hit like that? Shouldn't you expect to be hit that hard? In physics, a larger and faster body of matter travels and impacts a smaller object, damage will be done. BUT, if the same larger and faster object hits a larger and rather similarly strong object, not as much damage will be done.

[Ram]

Agreed. But the physics may balance out of the opposing object is also bigger. If that larger mass is going faster and it hits a larger object, should it balance out? That hit on Big Ben was a larger hit by a larger and faster body. But Ben is a larger man as well, he got up.

 

What I'm saying is, shouldn't you prepare to be hit like that? Shouldn't you expect to be hit that hard? In physics, a larger and faster body of matter travels and impacts a smaller object, damage will be done. BUT, if the same larger and faster object hits a larger and rather similarly strong object, not as much damage will be done.

Yes, but what happens when you have two larger and faster objects traveling in opposing directions and they collide?

 

On the Big Ben hit, I have no problem with that, it was a valid and legal hit. Big Ben makes an absurd amount of money to play a sport that has risks. His livelihood is dependent on fans watching to see if he throws for 200 yards or gets sacked five times.

[Little Ram]

Yes, but what happens when you have two larger and faster objects traveling in opposing directions and they collide?

 

On the Big Ben hit, I have no problem with that, it was a valid and legal hit. Big Ben makes an absurd amount of money to play a sport that has risks. His livelihood is dependent on fans watching to see if he throws for 200 yards or gets sacked five times.

 

My main question for the BGPers, is that a legal hit at the high school level? I know there are refs out there that flag that regardless of what level of football it occurs in, but why is that an illegal hit? Why are we questioning big hits in football? IT IS football for the love of God.

[rjs4470]

My main question for the BGPers, is that a legal hit at the high school level? I know there are refs out there that flag that regardless of what level of football it occurs in, but why is that an illegal hit? Why are we questioning big hits in football? IT IS football for the love of God.

 

I think that might draw a flag at the high school level as well. Initial contact was made with the crown of the helmet, which I'm guessing why the flag was thrown. 5 years ago, that hit is fine. Leading with the helmet can cause physical damage to the person being hit, as well as the person doing the hitting.

[BigRed32]

I think that might draw a flag at the high school level as well. Initial contact was made with the crown of the helmet, which I'm guessing why the flag was thrown. 5 years ago, that hit is fine. Leading with the helmet can cause physical damage to the person being hit, as well as the person doing the hitting.

 

Since when was the facemask considered the crown of the helmet? head was up, face mask to the chest, clean hit. The game is almost a joke because too many people are afraid of being hit. Too many rules put into the game. You know what you are getting into when you play football. Period. Before we know it will be illegal to hit a QB and flags will be worn on hips to prevent injury.

[Little Ram]

Since when was the facemask considered the crown of the helmet? head was up, face mask to the chest, clean hit. The game is almost a joke because too many people are afraid of being hit. Too many rules put into the game. You know what you are getting into when you play football. Period. Before we know it will be illegal to hit a QB and flags will be worn on hips to prevent injury.

 

Glad I am not the only person who thinks this.

[BigRed32]

you certainly are not

[rjs4470]

Since when was the facemask considered the crown of the helmet? head was up, face mask to the chest, clean hit. The game is almost a joke because too many people are afraid of being hit. Too many rules put into the game. You know what you are getting into when you play football. Period. Before we know it will be illegal to hit a QB and flags will be worn on hips to prevent injury.

 

It looked to me like contact was made with the helmet, not the facemask. I'm not saying he speared him, but I think contact was made with the forehead of the helmet, not the facemask. That being said, I'm only stating why the penalty may have been called. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that being an illegal hit. Rothlisberger wasn't defenseless. In my opinion, I don't think it should have been a penalty, but I can see why it was called.

 

I'm not sure where I really stand on the new rules. I've seen some hits called that I absolutely don't agree with. But I understand the point. I don't see an issue with trying to make the game safer. Yes violence is part of the sport. But unnecessary violence doesn't need to be part of the sport. It's like any other workplace...you can't eliminate all the danger or risk, but you can and should try to make it as safe as possible. And remember, this game is about QB's. You really can't win with a bad one, and they are the biggest stars of the game. If QB's are regularly getting hurt, the quality of the game will suffer. How far is too far?? Where is that line at?? I don't know. I don't think we've gotten there yet, as I still find the game enjoyable to watch.

[oldrambler]

I realize the emphasis on attention to the head injuries / concussions and I agree with it, especially in the younger players....high school, etc..

I have to say that some of these rules / interpretations of rules in the NFL have gotten ridiculous. I grew up watching the Raiders when they were the Raiders - in the 70s - Long, Alzado, Tatum, etc.This same time period had the Steelers....Lambert, Green, Hamm, etc / Steel Curtain, later were guys like Lawrence Taylor. These men wanted to Put you Out - carried off in ambulance , or hearse. lol.

I know that they have to have some rules for safety reasons but I am Old School, that's why "old" is in my bgp name. For the most art I have to agree with Jack Lambert on the rules protecting QB's......"Why don't you put a Dress on them" ?

I remember and loved guys like J. Tatum, Decon Jones, Dick Butkus, Ray Nitske, Lawrence Taylor, Jack Lambert, etc.. - you get the idea. It's Football for God's Sake. They wear helmets and pads for a reason - People hit people Nancy ! :taz:

Don't like it ? Go to the freakin' Oprah channel or watch that painter Bob Ross where "everything is beautiful". :sssh: :cry:

[JohnnyDrama]

Since when was the facemask considered the crown of the helmet? head was up, face mask to the chest, clean hit. The game is almost a joke because too many people are afraid of being hit. Too many rules put into the game. You know what you are getting into when you play football. Period. Before we know it will be illegal to hit a QB and flags will be worn on hips to prevent injury.

 

His facemask didn't hit Roethlisberger's chest. You can clearly see the Ravens' guy lower his head and the crown of his helmet is planted in Roethlisberger's chest -- which is why the ref threw the flag. He led with his head, which is a big no-no nowadays.