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Posted

I read about players recording triple doubles, scoring 40 points and 25 rebounds and the first thing I do is look at the record of the teams they are playing. If I check out the individual records of my school I find our players having the poorest records against the weakest teams. Percentages are higher than usual but our totals are lower because they don't play much more than 10 minutes for the whole game. I just wonder how much stock you put into these record performances against 7 wins and 18 loss teams. Most importantly, we have a running clock to protect our schools against self promoting individuals. :madman:

Posted
I read about players recording triple doubles, scoring 40 points and 25 rebounds and the first thing I do is look at the record of the teams they are playing. If I check out the individual records of my school I find our players having the poorest records against the weakest teams. Percentages are higher than usual but our totals are lower because they don't play much more than 10 minutes for the whole game. I just wonder how much stock you put into these record performances against 7 wins and 18 loss teams. Most importantly, we have a running clock to protect our schools against self promoting individuals. :madman:

 

That has been my point for years,,same applies to ranking teams..

Posted
I just wonder how much stock you put into these record performances against . . . :madman:

 

Certainly, the strength or weakness of the opponent, the running clock, whether the player's coach calls plays for the player to get more shots or simply has his team to continue to play in team mode (rather than help the player pad his numbers), all of these things and more matter a great deal. How many players who hold "records" at high schools played on teams that weren't particularly good so their coach allowed them to take most of the shots and perhaps there wasn't anybody else on the team who could rebound well?

 

Individual records can be impressive, but definitely more so when the record of the team the player is/was on is good. More important than total points, rebounds, assists, etc. is: How many wins, district championships, regional championships and state tournament appearances did the player's teams accrue while he played there? Typically you'll see multiple career 1,0000 or 2,000 career point players from the same era of a team where games were won and championships were achieved because they all made each other better to the exclusion of no one.

 

If a player is truly a great player he'll make his team & teammates better and the college scouts will still know he's good enough to have averaged 5-10 points more a game, but choose not to for the betterment of his team.

Posted
I read about players recording triple doubles, scoring 40 points and 25 rebounds and the first thing I do is look at the record of the teams they are playing. If I check out the individual records of my school I find our players having the poorest records against the weakest teams. Percentages are higher than usual but our totals are lower because they don't play much more than 10 minutes for the whole game. I just wonder how much stock you put into these record performances against 7 wins and 18 loss teams. Most importantly, we have a running clock to protect our schools against self promoting individuals. :madman:

 

That has been my point for years,,same applies to ranking teams..

 

The analogy that come to mind is the GPA. Weighted classes versus unweighted classes?

Posted

I saw a poster on here last year claim that a kid had over 20 rebounds in a game. I had the video and counted less than 10.

Had a similar situation this year. The stats from my favorite team are done by a group of ladies and are always verified after the game film is viewed.

Posted

Yep, no way of knowing if the stats are legit or not. I learned when I kept them at the collegiate level prior to beginning to keep score at high school level that you have to account for what happens to the ball on each possession and those numbers need to balance each other out. In other words on a possession one of several things can take place:

 

(1) shot taken & missed [2 or 3 field goal attempt is registered + rebound for individual or team]; (2) shot taken & made [2 or 3 field goal credited to player]; (3) foul called [ball taken out of bounds or FT taken & made or missed + foul charged to player + rebound credited to team or player on last free throw if missed]; (3) ball is turned over by team [player is charged with turnover + opposing player may be credited with steal or not]; (4) technical foul is called on player or bench [if team of player or coach T was called on had the ball a turnover may be charged if possession changed on top of the free throws; if they didn't have the ball then not - but it is also possible that a double T or fouls are charged in which case no turnover is charged depending on the circumstances].

 

And I haven't covered all of the possibilities, but in any case my point being is that for every possession there is a change in possession and a number assigned to the offensive team and an corresponding number assigned to the defensive to balance out that possession. At the end of the game if you have kept the stats correctly all such numbers will balance each other out.

 

Now how many high school teams do you think do that? FYI, 20 rebounds in a 32 minute high school game by one player is a HUGE number, not impossible, but unlikely. However, some players not only possess the physical tools to help make them great rebounders, they have a desire to seek the ball and an intuitive ability to read the shot angle and know where to be when the missed shot comes off the rim or backboard.

Posted

Here's the stat that counts: Home: ? Away: ? It's still a team sport and we've all fallen into the ESPN Top 10, Top 50, Top 100 hype. Individual performances in the short or long run are only a means to an end: the teams won/loss record. I don't know how you statistically, measure or discern great players on bad teams or bad players on great teams, etc. It does make for interesting conversation on BGP though.

Posted (edited)

Rebounds can be one of the most overrated stats. Let's say a kid has 15 rebounds, he's 6-6 and gets the inner postion on opposing team free throws.

 

If he grabs 7 off of missed free throws by the other team, then the 15 boards is kind of an inflated number. Most missed free throws doesn't have much of a battle for the boards.

 

Also, in a 30 point game, how many were break away layups from cherry picking. I've had a major D-1 college coach tell me that he could care less how may points a kid scored, He is more interested in how did they get them.

Edited by OutOfTimeouts
Posted

On Sunday, North Hardin's Kevon Davis was 19-of-19 at the foul line AT Marion County.

 

Granted North Hardin is struggling (6-19 I think) compared to its proud past, but to go perfect at the foul line on the road against a team you were predicted to lose HEAVILY to by most ratings (Cantrell, Litkenhous) is impressive, record be darned.

Posted
Any time a kid makes a high percentage at the line I give him credit. It is a lost art.

 

Totally agree, it does take that player to take a lot of shots to get to the foul line that many times but you can't force a free-throw.

 

How many games do we watch where free-throws could totally change the outcome of the game.

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