I think you've just hit the nail on the head. Coaches are always wanting consistancy from game to game then find officials who won't apply the rules as they are specifically written, cause all officials (not just in basketball) to lose credibility when they need it most.

 

I agree. I've had officials tell me that they won't enforce a rule because they don't agree with it. It makes me wonder on every non-call if it's an example of another rule that they don't agree with.

 

Fortunately, most of the officials that I see and work with DO seem to want to follow the rulebook and no make their own decisions about the rules.

Wow, and we wonder why officials have such an uphill battle to gaining respect. Admitting to being an official that wouldn't apply a rule correctly certainly gives credence to the publics perception.

You are actually telling me a good official should call the technical right away and take away the attempt at the lay-up? If you believe you know nothing about running a game. By the way, in my extensive officiating cateer I have been as respected as any official in the game. You are just trying to be a purist looking for obscure rule to discuss. As I said previously, the next time your original play is called YOUR BOOK way will be the first. Also, I couldn't care less about the PUBLIC"S PERCEPTION aboit how I officiate a game. It's the coachs' opinion I am concerned about, and I have no problem there.

You are actually telling me a good official should call the technical right away and take away the attempt at the lay-up? If you believe you know nothing about running a game. By the way, in my extensive officiating cateer I have been as respected as any official in the game. You are just trying to be a purist looking for obscure rule to discuss. As I said previously, the next time your original play is called YOUR BOOK way will be the first. Also, I couldn't care less about the PUBLIC"S PERCEPTION aboit how I officiate a game. It's the coachs' opinion I am concerned about, and I have no problem there.

 

Again, don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. As Clyde stated in regard to the potential technical during a break away, the procedure is not to penalize the team at an advantage in that situation and wait to call a technical. Why do you bring up such a poor example and try to make it fit your argument? It simply doesn't.

You say in one sentence how respected you are (perception) yet then say public perception isn't a concern of yours? :confused: As for the coaches I am sure their are quite a few that like you as an official as long as the rule you decide not to enforce correctly is in their favor.

As I said previously, the next time your original play is called YOUR BOOK way will be the first. .

 

So you and I are calling a game and this play happens. I call it as the rulebook says (ie points count, team shoots its FT, B gets the ball). B coach goes nuts and has your ear. You say what to him? You say what to me in the lockerroom in our de-brief after the game?

It's the coachs' opinion I am concerned about, and I have no problem there.

 

Why are you concerned with the coaches' opinions. It looks to me like you're only worried about what the coach will say about / rate you as at the end of the season. What will that coach say when he goes back and reads the rule (ok, when he asks another official because coaches don't often read the rules)??? Will he respect your decision to bail when the times are tough or will he wonder what other rules you choose not to enforce?

 

The measure of a true official is their reaction when the things go wrong. If you can't handle explaining the correct call, you're game management isn't that of an official with an "extensive career".

Edited November 30, 200916 yr by Ram
Rule 8

I don't think it is correctable because I think it has to be corrected before the next dead ball and if the basket was made and the ball became dead then there is your next dead ball making it not correctable. Just the way I read it..

I don't think it is correctable because I think it has to be corrected before the next dead ball and if the basket was made and the ball became dead then there is your next dead ball making it not correctable. Just the way I read it..

 

The rule says it has to be caught no later than after the first dead ball after the clock starts.

So you and I are calling a game and this play happens. I call it as the rulebook says (ie points count, team shoots its FT, B gets the ball). B coach goes nuts and has your ear. You say what to him? You say what to me in the lockerroom in our de-brief after the game?

Since you made the call I beckon you over and let you explain how the opposing team just got 4 points on one possession because the scorer failed to recognize the bonus situation. In the postgame discussion I suggest we bring the play up at the next official's meeting and see how many have EVER called it that way. The answer will be NONE.

Again, don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. As Clyde stated in regard to the potential technical during a break away, the procedure is not to penalize the team at an advantage in that situation and wait to call a technical. Why do you bring up such a poor example and try to make it fit your argument? It simply doesn't.

You say in one sentence how respected you are (perception) yet then say public perception isn't a concern of yours? :confused: As for the coaches I am sure their are quite a few that like you as an official as long as the rule you decide not to enforce correctly is in their favor.

 

Keep things in perspective. I told you how I would call one play in ONE situation. I NEVER stated I just call games the way I want. All coaches would agree with the way I would call this play, if it ever happened, which I don't know ever has. As far as public perception: I don't officiate for the pulic, most have no clue about rules, and as I said I couldn't care less about public perception. End of story.

Since you made the call I beckon you over and let you explain how the opposing team just got 4 points on one possession because the scorer failed to recognize the bonus situation. In the postgame discussion I suggest we bring the play up at the next official's meeting and see how many have EVER called it that way. The answer will be NONE.

 

Let me make sure I'm following.

 

You know its a rule.

We get paid to enforce rules.

Its clearly stated in the case book.

You see it happen.

 

You're not calling it?

 

Can you point me to the page that tells me which rules I can choose not to enforce?

You are actually telling me a good official should call the technical right away and take away the attempt at the lay-up? If you believe you know nothing about running a game. By the way, in my extensive officiating cateer I have been as respected as any official in the game. You are just trying to be a purist looking for obscure rule to discuss. As I said previously, the next time your original play is called YOUR BOOK way will be the first. Also, I couldn't care less about the PUBLIC"S PERCEPTION aboit how I officiate a game. It's the coachs' opinion I am concerned about, and I have no problem there.

If you truly are an official of 30+ years which I find hard to believe...just drop it. If you have called that long you are right there with me in years on the court. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but yes I would enforce the rule as written. You are not talking about judgment calls...advantage or disadvantage with the defense or offense or any other action while the ball is alive and in play. You are talking about a stoppage in play...you are given the problem...you are expected to render the correct legal decision. It is just that simple. You say that it is unfair to the other team....well do it your way and now you have made it unfair to the other team, because you did not make a correct ruling....now that team loses by one point...the film is sent to KHSAA...Mr. Tackett calls you and asks for an explanation...you sit for a couple of games. You can never go wrong by following the rules.

If you truly are an official of 30+ years which I find hard to believe...just drop it. If you have called that long you are right there with me in years on the court. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but yes I would enforce the rule as written. You are not talking about judgment calls...advantage or disadvantage with the defense or offense or any other action while the ball is alive and in play. You are talking about a stoppage in play...you are given the problem...you are expected to render the correct legal decision. It is just that simple. You say that it is unfair to the other team....well do it your way and now you have made it unfair to the other team, because you did not make a correct ruling....now that team loses by one point...the film is sent to KHSAA...Mr. Tackett calls you and asks for an explanation...you sit for a couple of games. You can never go wrong by following the rules.

 

Great first post! :clap:

If you truly are an official of 30+ years which I find hard to believe...just drop it. If you have called that long you are right there with me in years on the court. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but yes I would enforce the rule as written. You are not talking about judgment calls...advantage or disadvantage with the defense or offense or any other action while the ball is alive and in play. You are talking about a stoppage in play...you are given the problem...you are expected to render the correct legal decision. It is just that simple. You say that it is unfair to the other team....well do it your way and now you have made it unfair to the other team, because you did not make a correct ruling....now that team loses by one point...the film is sent to KHSAA...Mr. Tackett calls you and asks for an explanation...you sit for a couple of games. You can never go wrong by following the rules.

 

Welcome to the site and I agree! :thumb:

If you truly are an official of 30+ years which I find hard to believe...just drop it. If you have called that long you are right there with me in years on the court. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but yes I would enforce the rule as written. You are not talking about judgment calls...advantage or disadvantage with the defense or offense or any other action while the ball is alive and in play. You are talking about a stoppage in play...you are given the problem...you are expected to render the correct legal decision. It is just that simple. You say that it is unfair to the other team....well do it your way and now you have made it unfair to the other team, because you did not make a correct ruling....now that team loses by one point...the film is sent to KHSAA...Mr. Tackett calls you and asks for an explanation...you sit for a couple of games. You can never go wrong by following the rules.

 

Absolutely perfect!!!!! You're a welcome addition to the crew.:dancingpa

Go to any higher level official clinic (such as NCAA basketball or baseball) and they will tell you that the best officials know the rule book, but they do not enforce it like an attorney would. Officials who try to hard to overanalyze the black and white wording of a rule can sometimes completely lose the intent of said rule. In the case given, i would either A) explain that the horn went off before the ball went into the basket, or B) let team B inbound. I cannot imagine that the people who wrote that rule wanted to let a team have two chances to score in this scenario. This is a "stump the ref" question that a good official gets past despite a screw-up by the table.