Here's the scenario the offense is on there own 4 yard line quarterback drops back to pass in his own endzone he has one foot on the goal line and the rest of his body and the ball are in the endzone, the defense has him in their grasp quarterback throws the ball down to the ground at about the line of scrimage as he is being taken down, what's the call? is it a safety, or just intentional downing and the ball spotted just inside the goal line?

There is judgement involved here. First, the referee (white hat) would need to determine if the QB intnetionally grounded the pass to avoid a loss of yardage. If he judges that to be the case, then judgement must be used to determine where he was when he released the ball. Chances are the Referee was not on the goal line, but if he was, it's an easy call to make. If he is deeper in the end zone he may look to the line judge and/or linesman to help make the call.

 

Assuming the QB was in the end zone, the play results in a safety. If was not in the end zone, the penalty is 5 yards from the spot of the foul (or half the distance) and loss of down. If the play was already 4th down, the defense would take over, and 4th down would not be replayed.

 

Of course, if this was not ruled intentional grounding it would be a simple incomplete pass, and the next play would be from the previous spot.

 

Intentional Grounding in the end zone = safety

Intentional Grounding in the field of play = 5 yards from spot of the foul (or half the distance) + loss of down

There is judgement involved here. First, the referee (white hat) would need to determine if the QB intnetionally grounded the pass to avoid a loss of yardage. If he judges that to be the case, then judgement must be used to determine where he was when he released the ball. Chances are the Referee was not on the goal line, but if he was, it's an easy call to make. If he is deeper in the end zone he may look to the line judge and/or linesman to help make the call.

 

Assuming the QB was in the end zone, the play results in a safety. If was not in the end zone, the penalty is 5 yards from the spot of the foul (or half the distance) and loss of down. If the play was already 4th down, the defense would take over, and 4th down would not be replayed.

 

Of course, if this was not ruled intentional grounding it would be a simple incomplete pass, and the next play would be from the previous spot.

 

Intentional Grounding in the end zone = safety

Intentional Grounding in the field of play = 5 yards from spot of the foul (or half the distance) + loss of down

 

 

Is it where the ball was when it was released or is he considered out of the end zone if any part of his body is out of the end zone? Also does a foot on the line but not over the line make him out of the end zone.

Ok,well I was standing on the sideline just past the goal line the line judge was right on the goal line, all of the QB's body except for his right foot and the ball was in the end zone, ball hits the ground right behind the O Line, the ruling on the field was intentional grounding, no safety ball spotted just inside the goal line 2nd down.

NFHS Rule Book

 

Rule 10-5 Article 4:

"If the offensive team throws an illegal forward pass from its end zone or commits any other foul for which the penalty is accepted and measurement is from on or behind its goal line, it is a safety."

Ok,well I was standing on the sideline just past the goal line the line judge was right on the goal line, all of the QB's body except for his right foot and the ball was in the end zone, ball hits the ground right behind the O Line, the ruling on the field was intentional grounding, no safety ball spotted just inside the goal line 2nd down.

 

Sounds like the right call.

Is it where the ball was when it was released or is he considered out of the end zone if any part of his body is out of the end zone? Also does a foot on the line but not over the line make him out of the end zone.

It's where the ball was when it was released:

 

Rule 2-15-1...Forward progress is the end of advancement of the ball in a runner's possession...

I mistyped in the post above I should have said that only the right foot of the QB was on the goal line the rest of his body and the ball were in the end zone

Edited September 30, 200817 yr by PigSkinFan42

I mistyped in the post above I should have said that only the right foot of the QB was on the goal line the rest of his body and the ball were in the end zone

 

But you see, a throwing motion results in the ball going forward. The spot becomes the point on the field where the ball is when it leaves his hand. That becomes the point at which "grounding" is marked.

But you see, a throwing motion results in the ball going forward. The spot becomes the point on the field where the ball is when it leaves his hand. That becomes the point at which "grounding" is marked.

 

And the ball is almost always released ahead of the front foot in a throwing motion. Sounds like the ref made the right call!

I knew I would get the right answer here

 

Thanks

I've been examining the case book and rule book for this scenario. I cannot find this specific scenario, but here is what is there.

 

For a legal pass to be thrown the passer must be in or behind the neutral zone. If any part of his body is across the neutral zone then the pass is illegal.

 

I don't think we can apply this same philosophy to the goal line though, since the goal line in this play is behind the neutral zone. What makes this play illegal is not any line, but where the pass landed and the intent of the passer. If grounding is called then the pass was illegal. Illegal passing fouls are enforced from the end of the run. Since the pass was illegal, this was not a passing play but rather a running play. The end of the run is where the illegal pass was released from the passer's hand.

 

Most officials employ a 'when in doubt' rule to this scenario. This means that when in doubt, the pass was not from the end zone, and therefore not a safety. Officials do not want to award points to the defense when determining the relation of the pass to the goal line is in question.

 

Other factors in determining grounding would be degree of pressure on the passer by the defense, the proximity of eligible receivers to the pass, the ability of the passer, field and/or weather conditions, and more.

I can understand and respect that decision, I mean the team was penalized for intentional grounding with loss of down and half the distance.