That is great.

 

What if he doesn't reconcile and be redeemed?

What if he continues to do the same things?

What if he never stops doing the same things that got him punished?

You going to say, well I tried, don't worry about it son and keep on doing it?

 

You can still love it and will, but what will you do about his behavior if he NEVER reconciles and changes his behavior that you punished.

 

You acceptance and handling of that behavior has ZERO to do with your love for him.

 

You may have to kick him out of your house because he refuses to reconcile but you will still love him while you are doing it.

 

God's love for us and God's judgement for OUR BEHAVIOR AND OUR CHOICES have no link. He can love me all the while of punishing me.

 

I punished my daughter tonight and I was loving her the whole time I was doing it. She didn't think so but I love her no less, no more despite the punishment.

 

What was the purpose of the punishment?? What did you ultimately want to accomplish?

And when he finally decides to turn his life around and come home - I will wait for him with open arms . . . just like the parable of the waiting father (prodigal son.) I will never give up on him.

 

Again, you are making the assumption that he turns around. There will be some with such a hardened heart (Revelations talks about it) that they will NEVER reconcile.

 

What do you do with the ones that NEVER reconcile? Are they separated from God for all of eternity?

 

But from your first post, you would ask him to leave your home? Does that mean that you are not a loving and caring father because you asked him to leave your home?

 

Queen indicated that a God who separated himself from us through the means of Hell would not be a loving and caring God.

What was the purpose of the punishment?? What did you ultimately want to accomplish?

 

To change behavior and reconcile with what they should be doing.

 

But some will NEVER change behavior and reconcile. What do you do with them for all eternity?

If eternal salvation is for all eternity, does it not make sense that eternal punishment is for all eternity?

 

Sure. Does Revelation suggest that there will be annihilation?

Matthew 13

The Parable of the Weeds

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

 

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.

"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

 

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

 

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

 

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

Now we know what is going on with the weeping and gnashing of teeth as they (weeds) have been thrown into a fiery furnace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another thread but this parable stands in contrast to the idea of the Rapture. In the Rapture, Christ calls his believers first. Notice who is collected first in this parable.

To change behavior and reconcile with what they should be doing.

 

But some will NEVER change behavior and reconcile. What do you do with them for all eternity?

 

I may be an anihilationist (is that even close) . . . They may "roam" around forever . . . I am not trying to say that everyone will make it to God, so some may be separated forever and that is HELL. It is this notion of INTENTIONAL infliction of pain that is the problem. You can say that I/he/whomever choses it, but no one choses to TORTURED forever. And it serves God no purpose. Destroy or reconcile, but why TORTURE

Sure. Does Revelation suggest that there will be annihilation?

 

Revelations 20

The Dead Are Judged

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I may be an anihilationist (is that even close) . . . They may "roam" around forever . . . I am not trying to say that everyone will make it to God, so some may be separated forever and that is HELL. It is this notion of INTENTIONAL infliction of pain that is the problem. You can say that I/he/whomever choses it, but no one choses to TORTURED forever. And it serves God no purpose. Destroy or reconcile, but why TORTURE

 

I cannot understand either why one would choose torture forever.

But it is clear that Hell could be torture forever but yet they choose that path because IMVHO, arrogance and pride that they will not bow and accept that they are not in control and NEED Christ.

 

Would you assume that someone would CHOOSE to be locked in a cell for their whole life? Makes no sense but many choose that path in this country every single day.

Revelations 20

The Dead Are Judged

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

Just our of curiosity do you know what the actual Greek says. Is it a reference to Gehenna where they took out the trash and burned it? To destroy it??

Revelations 20

The Dead Are Judged

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

It has been a while since I've read Revelations, but I remember being hung up on a few things. In particular, it seemed that both the saved and non-saved died in body, were resurrected, then judged. It seems that passage above references Hades and the dead within it, though.

I cannot understand either why one would choose torture forever.

But it is clear that Hell could be torture forever but yet they choose that path because IMVHO, arrogance and pride that they will not bow and accept that they are not in control and NEED Christ.

 

Would you assume that someone would CHOOSE to be locked in a cell for their whole life? Makes no sense but many choose that path in this country every single day.

 

No, they do not choose to live that life, but that is the consequences of that decision. But even living it prison for your whole life does not compare to be burned 'forever'.

 

God could do many things to non-believers. Why would we believe that he would BURN THEM FOREVER? God is God and does not have to do it, so God chooses to do it in the scenario put forth by many modern believers. That is an evil God that would choose that result for a life not lived with understanding.

Just our of curiosity do you know what the actual Greek says. Is it a reference to Gehenna where they took out the trash and burned it? To destroy it??

 

So you are then agreeing that the analogy is to burn something.

 

And elsewhere we are told that punishment will be ETERNAL.

 

As I have been saying in other threads, when you take all of the Scriptures in totality, you have an eternal punishment of burning.

 

I am not happy about it and hope that NONE will take this route. But it seems clear that Scripture indicates this is a VERY REAL possibility.

No, they do not choose to live that life, but that is the consequences of that decision. But even living it prison for your whole life does not compare to be burned 'forever'.

 

God could do many things to non-believers. Why would we believe that he would BURN THEM FOREVER? God is God and does not have to do it, so God chooses to do it in the scenario put forth by many modern believers. That is an evil God that would choose that result for a life not lived with understanding.

 

Why would God send his Son to suffer the horrible death He did so that me and you can have eternal life?

 

God IS God and did not have to do it that way.

 

But this loving and caring God sent His Son to be crucified for people that will reject Him.

 

And yet that is what He chose to do.

It has been a while since I've read Revelations, but I remember being hung up on a few things. In particular, it seemed that both the saved and non-saved died in body, were resurrected, then judged. It seems that passage above references Hades and the dead within it, though.

 

Not sure of your question.

Scripture does indicate that we will get a new body.

I am hoping for one more like Tom Selleck.

Since you know very little about Pastor Queen and the congregation of IBC I can let it slide that you so slander his and our intellect.

 

Unfortunately for us we are a rather homogenous congregation. Most of us are well educated and most of us are rather opinionated. To suggest that we follow along like lambs to the slaughter is just a silly proposition. Are Sunday morning pews are populated with Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, Day Treatment Directors (), preachers kids, former preachers, blah, blah, blah. We enjoyed being challenged to think about the scripture and about our theology. We are unlike many churches with which I am familiar in that we don't think that everything that comes out of Chuck's mouth is "gospel." He is human like us and he could be wrong. The great thing about my church is that we actually challenge one another, in love of course, when we think differently. Our preacher sits in our Sunday School class and neither he nor I are afraid to say, "well I disagree with what he is saying and here is why."

 

The columns are not meant to be scholarly works. They are articles for the local newspaper that allow people to see that there is a different perspective. FWIW it has attracted several non-churched people to visit our congregation and some have stayed to worship with us on a regular basis. They are written for a 'general' audience.

 

As for his religious training . . . Campbellsville, SBC, and one other I think. But how do you criticize when you do not know. you make assumptions because you disagree.

 

BTW I KNOW of former professors at SBC who do not believe in an eternal punishment. They are undecided maybe on what actually does happen but an eternity of torment is certainly not it.

 

In your first paragraph, you claim that I slander Queen's "intellect," but then later claim that what he was saying was not meant to be scholarly or intellectual. I guess I just don't get it.

 

You, in your first post, ask for comment about the posted sermons, and then criticize and dismiss my response, which I thought was pretty fair, but saying "you just don't know who we are or know pastor Queen." If you wanted response from only people who know pastor Queen, why didn't you just say so and spare the wear and tear on my fingers?

 

I am not impressed by the makeup of your congregation, more so than by any other. Lawyers, doctors, and day treatment workers can be as misled as any other. "Intellect" is not impressive when not used.

 

I made several textual critiques in my post which you did not bother to address.