I believe you misunderstand, as cruel as it may seem, if you end up in Hell, make no mistake, it will be you, not God, who sends you there.:fire:

Never said the human race is inferior. However, to be equal to God is how your posts IMO have tried to make our race seem, and it's simply not so.

 

I've enjoyed the banter, have a great new year!

Don't know how it can be much clearer than that!:thumb:

I believe you misunderstand, as cruel as it may seem, if you end up in Hell, make no mistake, it will be you, not God, who sends you there.

 

Never said the human race is inferior. However, to be equal to God is how your posts IMO have tried to make our race seem, and it's simply not so.

 

I've enjoyed the banter, have a great new year!

 

OK...let me rephrase so that you can answer the question that I know you know I asked. Do you admit that God "allowing" you to go to Hell is cruel?

 

I don't exactly understand why you think that I am suggesting that the human race be equal to God. Quite the opposite actually. I would expect a God t o be far greater than the humans he created. That's why I dont believe in a God that would "ALLOW" his creations to go to hell. Probably 99% of the people on Earth would not feel comfortable allowing something like this to happen to an enemy...much less someone they have supposedly love so strongly.

OK...let me rephrase so that you can answer the question that I know you know I asked. Do you admit that God "allowing" you to go to Hell is cruel?

 

I don't exactly understand why you think that I am suggesting that the human race be equal to God. Quite the opposite actually. I would expect a God t o be far greater than the humans he created. That's why I dont believe in a God that would "ALLOW" his creations to go to hell. Probably 99% of the people on Earth would not feel comfortable allowing something like this to happen to an enemy...much less someone they have supposedly love so strongly.

 

A constant reader but not a poster wanted me to pass on this tidbit on the nature of Hell and whether it is cruel or not....

 

 

ON ETERNAL PUNISHMENT:

 

If the "Christian God" exists as we believe He does.

And if He is as the Scriptures describe Him, then we know Him to be one thing for sure: HOLY.

 

FrontRow guy does not understand the severity of SIN, and how that flies in the face of a HOLY God. And to be fair, I don't understand it completely either. As a parent, I know what it's like to discipline my child, but as FrontRow guy stated, I would never condemn my own child to eternal punishment in Hell.

 

And this, among many reasons, is why I am not God.

 

I am not holy. I have not always existed. I have not always existed in my own holiness and perfection and in a sin-free environment. As a terribly imperfect human being, I know nothing of holiness--nor the severity of sin in the presence of a Holy Being.

 

I know from Scripture that God the Father cannot coexist with sin. When His own Son was dying on the cross, bearing all our sins upon himself, the Father had to turn away, leaving His Son to cry out, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?"

 

That one statement, more than any other words in Scripture, indicate to me the seriousness of sin in the presence of a Holy God. If it causes Him to even turn His own back on His one and only Son, it must be a bigger deal than we will EVER, EVER, EVER know.

 

So on this issue, I plead ignorance. I know neither the magnificance of holiness nor the awfulness of sin.

The former because I'll never attain it. The latter because I'm not the former (I'll never understand the severity of sin because I'm not holy).

 

God has plainly provided a way for sin to be accounted for in our lives: His own Son. By accepting the Son, we accept the sacrifice for sin. Therefore, when we have Christ, God looks at us and sees--not sin--but His own Son.

 

But when we are without Christ, we are with sin. And sin, in the presence of a Holy God? It just cannot happen. For whatever reason, it just cannot happen.

A constant reader but not a poster wanted me to pass on this tidbit on the nature of Hell and whether it is cruel or not....

 

 

ON ETERNAL PUNISHMENT:

 

If the "Christian God" exists as we believe He does.

And if He is as the Scriptures describe Him, then we know Him to be one thing for sure: HOLY.

 

FrontRow guy does not understand the severity of SIN, and how that flies in the face of a HOLY God. And to be fair, I don't understand it completely either. As a parent, I know what it's like to discipline my child, but as FrontRow guy stated, I would never condemn my own child to eternal punishment in Hell.

 

And this, among many reasons, is why I am not God.

 

I am not holy. I have not always existed. I have not always existed in my own holiness and perfection and in a sin-free environment. As a terribly imperfect human being, I know nothing of holiness--nor the severity of sin in the presence of a Holy Being.

 

I know from Scripture that God the Father cannot coexist with sin. When His own Son was dying on the cross, bearing all our sins upon himself, the Father had to turn away, leaving His Son to cry out, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?"

 

That one statement, more than any other words in Scripture, indicate to me the seriousness of sin in the presence of a Holy God. If it causes Him to even turn His own back on His one and only Son, it must be a bigger deal than we will EVER, EVER, EVER know.

 

So on this issue, I plead ignorance. I know neither the magnificance of holiness nor the awfulness of sin.

The former because I'll never attain it. The latter because I'm not the former (I'll never understand the severity of sin because I'm not holy).

 

God has plainly provided a way for sin to be accounted for in our lives: His own Son. By accepting the Son, we accept the sacrifice for sin. Therefore, when we have Christ, God looks at us and sees--not sin--but His own Son.

 

But when we are without Christ, we are with sin. And sin, in the presence of a Holy God? It just cannot happen. For whatever reason, it just cannot happen.

 

Good post, and LBBC, thank this person for their input for me.

 

In response, I can only say that for theirs/yours/etc's own santity - I am glad that they can buy into such an argument. While I see it is easy to connect the dots of holiness and punishment for which we can't humanly fathom - I can not connect those dots.

 

I am uncapable, in good conscience, of believing in much less following and obeying a God capable of this.

Good post, and LBBC, thank this person for their input for me.

 

In response, I can only say that for theirs/yours/etc's own santity - I am glad that they can buy into such an argument. While I see it is easy to connect the dots of holiness and punishment for which we can't humanly fathom - I can not connect those dots.

 

I am uncapable, in good conscience, of believing in much less following and obeying a God capable of this.

 

I will pass it on.

 

And on the latter, there was a time I would not have understood either. But with faith and study and prayer, I believe God has shown me that I will not understand everything he must do.

 

As I posted earlier from Brad Stine, if I can understand everything that God has to do to run this Universe and everything in it, then he ain't the God I thought he was. Cause, I know I ain't that smart.

 

I have to understand that I cannot expect to connect all the dots on everything.

I will pass it on.

 

And on the latter, there was a time I would not have understood either. But with faith and study and prayer, I believe God has shown me that I will not understand everything he must do.

 

As I posted earlier from Brad Stine, if I can understand everything that God has to do to run this Universe and everything in it, then he ain't the God I thought he was. Cause, I know I ain't that smart.

 

I have to understand that I cannot expect to connect all the dots on everything.

 

I was the exact opposite. At a time in my life, I would have connected those dots without looking to see what the dots were. I would have blindly taken anything said by the Bible or a preacher for the Gospel and never stopped to think about what I was accepting.

 

I have came to understand that if I can't connect the dots - I really don't wish to do the picture.

I was the exact opposite. At a time in my life, I would have connected those dots without looking to see what the dots were. I would have blindly taken anything said by the Bible or a preacher for the Gospel and never stopped to think about what I was accepting.

 

I have came to understand that if I can't connect the dots - I really don't wish to do the picture.

 

Let me ask you, when you accept your paycheck, take it to the bank and get some twenties back, why do you know that one of the pieces of paper is worth $20 dollars? The paper and chemicals are not necessarily worth the $20.

 

Is there anyway to prove that a month from now, that piece of paper will be worth $20?

 

Are there dots to connect to prove that the one piece of paper that has a 20 on it, is worth $20? Or do you have to accept it on faith that it is worth $20?

Let me ask you, when you accept your paycheck, take it to the bank and get some twenties back, why do you know that one of the pieces of paper is worth $20 dollars? The paper and chemicals are not necessarily worth the $20.

 

Is there anyway to prove that a month from now, that piece of paper will be worth $20?

 

Are there dots to connect to prove that the one piece of paper that has a 20 on it, is worth $20? Or do you have to accept it on faith that it is worth $20?

 

You're not accepting it on "faith" - youre accepting it on "pratice." We have all used twenties and know what they are worth. You're trying to compare what we know and what we can't know.

You're not accepting it on "faith" - youre accepting it on "pratice." We have all used twenties and know what they are worth. You're trying to compare what we know and what we can't know.

 

And that is a key difference, I am open to what is driving my life. I know it on practice that God is real. Cause when I do things that God would want me to do based on study of Scripture, than good things happen in my life.

 

Those lessons out of the Bible come true in the version of LBBC's life.

 

I know what following Christ is worth the same as I know what a $20 is worth because of practice.

 

When the things in my life go out of control and negatives happen and I look back on it with 20/20 hindsight, I see it was me trying to rely on my intelligence, knowledge and life experiences instead of relying on what Scripture has taught me.

 

What I thought I knew was fool's gold. And that has been proven to be true more and more in my life when I rely on me and not on God.

 

And the more I have been open to it, the louder and clearer that voice of the Holy Spirit has been in driving my life.

 

I still, though, resist it, too much. (Just like Paul, I wonder why I do things that I know I shouldn't do, yet I continue to do them. GGRR!!) Me likes worldly things a little too much. That came from 32 years of living for the world and not for Christ.

And that is a key difference, I am open to what is driving my life. I know it on practice that God is real. Cause when I do things that God would want me to do based on study of Scripture, than good things happen in my life.

 

Warm fuzzies.

 

Those lessons out of the Bible come true in the version of LBBC's life.

 

I know what following Christ is worth the same as I know what a $20 is worth because of practice.

 

When the things in my life go out of control and negatives happen and I look back on it with 20/20 hindsight, I see it was me trying to rely on my intelligence, knowledge and life experiences instead of relying on what Scripture has taught me.

What I thought I knew was fool's gold. And that has been proven to be true more and more in my life when I rely on me and not on God.

 

And the more I have been open to it, the louder and clearer that voice of the Holy Spirit has been in driving my life.

 

I still, though, resist it, too much. (Just like Paul, I wonder why I do things that I know I shouldn't do, yet I continue to do them. GGRR!!) Me likes worldly things a little too much. That came from 32 years of living for the world and not for Christ

 

It sounds to be almost as your religion is nothing more than a scapegoat for your humanly problems and strife. I wish it were as simple to blame every bad thing as the will of an all knowing God.

Warm fuzzies.

 

 

 

It sounds to be almost as your religion is nothing more than a scapegoat for your humanly problems and strife. I wish it were as simple to blame every bad thing as the will of an all knowing God.

 

Considering it was Adam and Eve's humanly problems and strife that got us into this mess, not sure the point you are trying to make here.

 

If I tell you that 2000 years from now you did something and the result would be this, would it not offer proof that I know what I am talking about?

 

In a far much different time and culture, Jesus told me certain things through the Bible. And they are as real today as they were 2000 years ago. Does that not offer some proof of him knowing what he was talking about?

Considering it was Adam and Eve's humanly problems and strife that got us into this mess, not sure the point you are trying to make here.

 

If God created the first man in his own image...why did they have problems? Did God leave his perfectness out of the image?

 

If I tell you that 2000 years from now you did something and the result would be this, would it not offer proof that I know what I am talking about?

 

No. Haven't you ever seen Minority Report?

 

In a far much different time and culture, Jesus told me certain things through the Bible. And they are as real today as they were 2000 years ago. Does that not offer some proof of him knowing what he was talking about?

 

What exactly did Jesus tell you through the Bible that is as real today as they were 2000 years ago? Try to give me examples that only Christ, The Messiah, could have done. Make the distinction that what he said (or what is recorded that he said) can be seperated as different or better than anyone else of the time period.

If God created the first man in his own image...why did they have problems? Did God leave his perfectness out of the image?

 

No. Haven't you ever seen Minority Report?

 

What exactly did Jesus tell you through the Bible that is as real today as they were 2000 years ago? Try to give me examples that only Christ, The Messiah, could have done. Make the distinction that what he said (or what is recorded that he said) can be seperated as different or better than anyone else of the time period.

 

God gave Man the ability to sin or to not sin. Adam CHOSE to sin while Eve was deceived to sin.

 

Don't know what the Minority Report is unless you are meaning Tom Cruise's movie?

 

It is not only what Jesus said but the life tips given to us through the OT 2000 years ago. Things that are as alive about how to live our life in the camel and fig days of the OT as it is in the car and Windows days of today.

 

It is not only what Jesus said but the life tips given to us through the OT 2000 years ago. Things that are as alive about how to live our life in the camel and fig days of the OT as it is in the car and Windows days of today.

 

Lao Tzu wrote a great book on how to live and he wrote it several hundred years before Christ was even born. His words are still significant on how to live our life.

 

What makes Christ's words better and more important than those of Lao Tzu?

Lao Tzu wrote a great book on how to live and he wrote it several hundred years before Christ was even born. His words are still significant on how to live our life.

 

What makes Christ's words better and more important than those of Lao Tzu?

 

As I said, I am NOT referring to Christ but also words from King Solomon and David.

 

Did Lao Tzu claim to be the Son of God? With that single claim, Jesus either was the Son of God or a crackpot. No in between.