Great question and one I have never seen happen. Ground rule double or Foul ball would be the choices. I would go with foul ball. My reasoning would be that if the ball hit Home plate and went into the dugout it would be a foul ball. And I would classify home plate and the pitchers rubber as being the same in this situation.

Great question and one I have never seen happen. Ground rule double or Foul ball would be the choices. I would go with foul ball. My reasoning would be that if the ball hit Home plate and went into the dugout it would be a foul ball. And I would classify home plate and the pitchers rubber as being the same in this situation.

 

Just take the pitcher's plate out of the equation and assume instead of a line drive it was a soft hit off the end of the bat with lots of backspin that hit on the mound (w/o being touched, of course) and spun off the field into the dugout. Obviously, a foul ball. Same applies with the line drive off the pitcher's plate.

Just take the pitcher's plate out of the equation and assume instead of a line drive it was a soft hit off the end of the bat with lots of backspin that hit on the mound (w/o being touched, of course) and spun off the field into the dugout. Obviously, a foul ball. Same applies with the line drive off the pitcher's plate.

 

 

:thumb:

We had the opposite situation happen in one of our games a few weeks ago. Our third baseman had one foot in fair territory and one foot in foul territory and fielded a chopped ball clearly in fair territory and put the batter out at first base. The Home plate umpire ruled it a foul ball because the third baseman was in foul territory when he touched the ball and the batter was allowed to return home to complete his at bat. According to the definition of a "Foul Ball" this is a bad interpretation also.

 

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

 

I realize you can't know every nuance of the rules but this is pretty basic stuff.

We had the opposite situation happen in one of our games a few weeks ago. Our third baseman had one foot in fair territory and one foot in foul territory and fielded a chopped ball clearly in fair territory and put the batter out at first base. The Home plate umpire ruled it a foul ball because the third baseman was in foul territory when he touched the ball and the batter was allowed to return home to complete his at bat. According to the definition of a "Foul Ball" this is a bad interpretation also.

 

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

 

I realize you can't know every nuance of the rules but this is pretty basic stuff.

I heard a fan say it best one time...."The chalk is there for the ball and not the player"....

We had the opposite situation happen in one of our games a few weeks ago. Our third baseman had one foot in fair territory and one foot in foul territory and fielded a chopped ball clearly in fair territory and put the batter out at first base. The Home plate umpire ruled it a foul ball because the third baseman was in foul territory when he touched the ball and the batter was allowed to return home to complete his at bat. According to the definition of a "Foul Ball" this is a bad interpretation also.

 

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

 

I realize you can't know every nuance of the rules but this is pretty basic stuff.

This thread is interesting. I was always under the impression that if the fielder was in fair territory when they touched a ball then it was a fair ball no matter where the ball was.

 

I guess you do learn something everyday.

We had the opposite situation happen in one of our games a few weeks ago. Our third baseman had one foot in fair territory and one foot in foul territory and fielded a chopped ball clearly in fair territory and put the batter out at first base. The Home plate umpire ruled it a foul ball because the third baseman was in foul territory when he touched the ball and the batter was allowed to return home to complete his at bat. According to the definition of a "Foul Ball" this is a bad interpretation also.

 

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

 

I realize you can't know every nuance of the rules but this is pretty basic stuff.

 

The easiest way to show the umpire politely that he's misunderstanding the rule is to ask the following:

 

So, blue, based on your theory if a 3rd baseman was getting ready to catch a popup on the 3rd base line on a ball that is clearly fair BUT he had his feet on the foul side of the line, its a foul ball should he drop it ??

This thread is interesting. I was always under the impression that if the fielder was in fair territory when they touched a ball then it was a fair ball no matter where the ball was.

 

I guess you do learn something everyday.

 

My work is done.

I heard a fan say it best one time...."The chalk is there for the ball and not the player"....

 

I had never heard that before. Thanks for sharing.

I have heard these two stories:

 

Years ago my dad coached and I have heard him tell the story of a ball that was hit down the left field line and he said chalk flew and the umpire called FOUL BALL. When dad went to argue The Umpire said " It hit the foul line so its a foul ball. If it was a fair ball then they would call it a fair line"

 

I also heard from a coach here recently that an umpire called a Foul Ball on a ball that hit the line because in the umps opinion it hit the foul side of the line.

Hopefully I won't get into trouble for changing directions on this thread, but it's kind of appropriate given that there's been some discussion about the placement of players feet in foul or fair territory. K3, if I need to start a new thread, let me know.

 

I had an umpire crew in Cincinnati (Umpires R' Us) that insisted on calling a "Fielder's Balk." They claim this occurred when my 1Bman had a foot in foul territory while holding a runner on base. Because the rules say that all fielders, except the catcher, must be in the field of play at the time of a pitch, the decided this is a"fielder's balk" and awarded a base to the runners (on first and third at time). I asked them to show me in the rulebook where the penalty was a balk and he refused to do so, claiming he was a former minor league umpire and I was insulting him by asking him to do this. (Unlike Hector, this was a "I know everything and can't possibly be wrong", has-a-chip-on-his-shoulder umpire).

 

So I let it go and after the game did a bunch of research, including contacting the Director of Umpires for MLB (very nice guy). He said there is indeed a rule about all players being in fair territory prior to pitch, but it is really never enforced. Even if it were to be enforced, there is no balk penalty, only an admonition by the umpire to the fielder to get both his feet into the field of play. Technically, the ball can't even be put in play unless the 8 fielders are in fair territory and obviously there can be no balk if the ball is dead.

 

Long story short - I had this guy for another game during a tournament months later and he calls the same thing. I calmly call time, whip out my rulebook and copies of various email exchanges I've had with MLB and other professional sources. He tells me he doesn't care, he knows the rules, and knows it's a balk. Just like he knows going to your mouth on the rubber/mound is a balk with runners on base (it's not - it's a ball, regardless whether there are runners on base or not). I guess if I had been trying to show him up in a public way I could accept his defensiveness, but I kept it low key and kept my discussion out on the field where it could not be overheard by spectators. Sometimes you run up against guys like that and there just ain't much you can do about it. :irked:

Hopefully I won't get into trouble for changing directions on this thread, but it's kind of appropriate given that there's been some discussion about the placement of players feet in foul or fair territory. K3, if I need to start a new thread, let me know.

 

I had an umpire crew in Cincinnati (Umpires R' Us) that insisted on calling a "Fielder's Balk." They claim this occurred when my 1Bman had a foot in foul territory while holding a runner on base. Because the rules say that all fielders, except the catcher, must be in the field of play at the time of a pitch, the decided this is a"fielder's balk" and awarded a base to the runners (on first and third at time)...

I knew all, but the Catcher must be placed in the field, but I also "presumed" a warning, would be issued first. If the penalty, is a Fielders Balk, than I am not aware.

 

If the fielder has been warned and continues, I can see a penalty of something be assigned (balk, ball on batter, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc...). I've never seen this called, at any level of play either.

Had that discussion with MLB Director also. They can never just make up their own penalty - i.e, balk, ball, etc.. If the fielder refuses to follow his "suggestion" and then his "admonition", he simply tosses the fielder. The MLB guy thought the whole thing was hysterical - he had never heard of the term "fielder's balk." And interestingly, he had also never heard of the name of the umpire, which he said he would have if he truly did umpire in the minor leagues.

Had that discussion with MLB Director also. They can never just make up their own penalty - i.e, balk, ball, etc.. If the fielder refuses to follow his "suggestion" and then his "admonition", he simply tosses the fielder. The MLB guy thought the whole thing was hysterical - he had never heard of the term "fielder's balk." And interestingly, he had also never heard of the name of the umpire, which he said he would have if he truly did umpire in the minor leagues.

I thought, not following would result in possible "unsportsmanlike" penalties.

 

Here's a questions, say the ball is hit starts out foul....down the 1st base line. 1st basemen collides with pitcher, looses 1st basemen mitt and lands just in foul territory. The ball continues to roll and makes contact, with the glove, which has became dislodged and ends up on the chalk....Foul or Fair?

I thought, not following would result in possible "unsportsmanlike" penalties.

 

Here's a questions, say the ball is hit starts out foul....down the 1st base line. 1st basemen collides with pitcher, looses 1st basemen mitt and lands just in foul territory. The ball continues to roll and makes contact, with the glove, which has became dislodged and ends up on the chalk....Foul or Fair?

 

Well, not exactly a play you'd see everyday - or even every other decade - but I'm going to go with foul ball if I followed your scenario correctly (ball initially rolling foul contacts glove laying on ground in foul territory and is then re-directed into fair territory). Doesn't seem like a "foreign object" should be permitted to re-direct an otherwise foul ball into becoming fair. Just a guess though.