I find it odd that so many posters have mentioned positioning and there has been very little if any talk of game management and knowledge of the rules.

 

First responsibility SHOULD be rules knowledge and believe it or not there are officials in the mountains that do not know the rules, much less mechanics.

 

Yes, there are some very good officials in the mountains but there are some that have no business being on a varsity field.

 

 

I tell this to anyone who says these kinds of things..... If you feel the officials are not "up to par" then get registered yourself and get out there and officiate. If you feel you can do a better job, go for it. Most association across the state are short on officials, especially in the mountain regions. I think sometimes the actions of fans are a main reason why these association are so short on officials. The people who would like to officiate don't because they know they will be screamed at like a dog, sometimes people talk to their dogs better than they speak to officials. It's a shame but it's the truth. If these fans would stop doing this, these associations might be able to get a few more officials each year.

The thread wasn't about rules, the thread asked what were the positions and resposiblities of each position.

Agreed, but my point is that it is the responsibility of EACH official to know the rules before stepping on the field, no matter their position.

I tell this to anyone who says these kinds of things..... If you feel the officials are not "up to par" then get registered yourself and get out there and officiate. If you feel you can do a better job, go for it. Most association across the state are short on officials, especially in the mountain regions. I think sometimes the actions of fans are a main reason why these association are so short on officials. The people who would like to officiate don't because they know they will be screamed at like a dog, sometimes people talk to their dogs better than they speak to officials. It's a shame but it's the truth. If these fans would stop doing this, these associations might be able to get a few more officials each year.

SEE MY POST #27 ^^

 

Been there done that...I officiated in the mountains and was much involved for quite a while.

And I do commend the ones that are willing to officiate that actually take the time to learn the rules and try to do as good job.

The ones I have issues with are the ones just out there for whatever reason.

Believe me, I know the problems with officials in the mountains...travel...recruiting(officials)...etc, etc.

However, I disagree about the fans. While other sports seem to have trouble with fans, I really don't believe that is the case in football.

Agree...officials should not be watching the ball..also I know its a little thing but I dont think a whistle should be in the mouth...inadvertant whistle is ONE of the worst things that can happen.....Know the rules...

They make a whistle that fits on your finger so you have to bring it up to your month every time. This makes you think a liile more before you blow the whistle. Good thing for new guys.

I think the refs in NKY do a good job, However I think most refs need to read the Block in the back rule. It says it has to be right in the back and they need to see the whole act or not call anything. On Kick returns and Punt returns it seems like they have their hand on their flag waiting to see if anyone falls down.

I think the refs in NKY do a good job, However I think most refs need to read the Block in the back rule. It says it has to be right in the back and they need to see the whole act or not call anything. On Kick returns and Punt returns it seems like they have their hand on their flag waiting to see if anyone falls down.

 

Im pretty sure it is more obvious than "right in the back". If the head is behind and/or the hands are on the back than it is block in the back, and the rule doesnt specify whether or not refs call it if they see the whole act, thats more of a guideline.... I dont know for sure though

I reffed for 15 years and thought I was pretty good at it. I learned most of my philosophy from a reff who had been doing it for twenty years at that time and he's still going strong. So he's been at it for over 30 years, he's very good but his crew isn't and they make him look bad. He told me three things should determine whether or not you throw a flag, because as we all know you really could throw one on every play if you wanted to. 1. If it gives someone an unfair advantage 2. If it will get someone hurt throw the flag. 3. If it isn't one of those that can cause an injury and it has no effect on the play don't throw a flag.Those 3 simple rules served me well. I really think understanding the game and keeping yourself in position are the keys to good officating. I have called with guys that could quote the rule book inside out, but weren't very good because they didn't position themselves very well.I don't call games anymore because I got into coaching,but I did learn if the coaches are on you, most of the time it's because you're not doing a very good job. The fans I always ignored because most of them don't know the rules anyway.:thumb:

He told me three things should determine whether or not you throw a flag, because as we all know you really could throw one on every play if you wanted to. :

 

Excellent point P-Man. In the college camps, they have charts to determine what you should call from where on the field by postion. For example, on a running play away from you, you almost never throw a flag away from the point of attack unless as you mentioned, safety is a concern. If players want to "chicken fight" just step in, settle it and continue to officiate and let the play happen. That is a college interpretation-the problem is high school is called tighter.

SEE MY POST #27 ^^

 

Been there done that...I officiated in the mountains and was much involved for quite a while.

And I do commend the ones that are willing to officiate that actually take the time to learn the rules and try to do as good job.

The ones I have issues with are the ones just out there for whatever reason.

Believe me, I know the problems with officials in the mountains...travel...recruiting(officials)...etc, etc.

However, I disagree about the fans. While other sports seem to have trouble with fans, I really don't believe that is the case in football.

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you had written that post. My apologies. But I do feel the fans actions, while maybe not the main reason for recruitment problems, are one of the reason for the problems.

I think the refs in NKY do a good job, However I think most refs need to read the Block in the back rule. It says it has to be right in the back and they need to see the whole act or not call anything. On Kick returns and Punt returns it seems like they have their hand on their flag waiting to see if anyone falls down.

 

The Block in the Back rule was changed in 2002, and the following description is taken directly from the NFHS and KHSAA rules clinic documentation.

 

BLOCK IN THE BACK (2-5): This change clarifies the

definitions for clipping and blocking in the back. The primary

change states that clipping occurs at or below the waist,

from the back of the opponent and is a 15-yard foul and

that a block inside the shoulders, below the neck and above

the waist shall be considered a block in the back and a 10-

yard foul. In various nationwide surveys, officials have been

reluctant to call clipping fouls for contact above the waist,

due in part because of the perceived severity of the penalty.

This change also clarifies that the back is the area between

the arms (but not including the shoulders) and above the

waist and below the neck. Nothing about this provision

implies or states that excessive contact above the waist

could not be called a personal foul and therefore be

enforced with a 15-yard penalty.

 

Officials are taught that you need to see the entire action in order to properly rule on it.

.......I did learn if the coaches are on you, most of the time it's because you're not doing a very good job......:

 

 

I don't know about that. Sometimes, maybe.... Coaches yell at you for various reason. Sometimes they are yelling at you for a call later in the game, thinking they can talk you into a call. Other times they are screaming because they don't agree with your call. They have a different view then you and sometimes they don't see everything the officials see. But I'll have to disagree with this part of your post because they scream at you for all kinds of reasons. They make think your not doing a good job but that doesn't mean you're not doing your job well.

Im pretty sure it is more obvious than "right in the back". If the head is behind and/or the hands are on the back than it is block in the back, and the rule doesnt specify whether or not refs call it if they see the whole act, thats more of a guideline.... I dont know for sure though

 

Not necessarily. That's a misconception I've heard often. The head has nothing to do with it. The block has to be between the shoulder blades for it to be illegal and you need to see the entire act. Sometimes the defender turns his back to the blocker and is hit in the back in which case you would not penalize the blocker. Not the above post #40 for specifics.

I'm not meaning about a call, but all game long as some fans tend to do. There are a fair amount of coaches that aren't up on the rules as they should be.

I'm not meaning about a call, but all game long as some fans tend to do. There are a fair amount of coaches that aren't up on the rules as they should be.

 

 

That's a fact. I believe all coaches on the HS level including Freshman, JV, and Varsity need to attend a rules clinic before the season starts. All Varsity coaches must attend but they should bring their entire staff along.

The Block in the Back rule was changed in 2002, and the following description is taken directly from the NFHS and KHSAA rules clinic documentation.

 

BLOCK IN THE BACK (2-5): This change clarifies the

definitions for clipping and blocking in the back. The primary

change states that clipping occurs at or below the waist,

from the back of the opponent and is a 15-yard foul and

that a block inside the shoulders, below the neck and above

the waist shall be considered a block in the back and a 10-

yard foul. In various nationwide surveys, officials have been

reluctant to call clipping fouls for contact above the waist,

due in part because of the perceived severity of the penalty.

This change also clarifies that the back is the area between

the arms (but not including the shoulders) and above the

waist and below the neck. Nothing about this provision

implies or states that excessive contact above the waist

could not be called a personal foul and therefore be

enforced with a 15-yard penalty.

 

Officials are taught that you need to see the entire action in order to properly rule on it.

 

So I was wrong it doesn't say directly in the back it just describes the area that it is directly in the back and excludes the shoulders, No where does it say anything about what side your head is on like many people think. To me by the rule you can hit a player in the shoulder with your head on the back side and it is not a block in the back.