Pop Times

[Pat Dad]

We've been discussing this and would like thoughts from the baseball crowd.

 

Here's what most are saying. "Pop times are useless,unless you also time the pitcher from “break-to-plate”. Break-to-plate is timed when runner breaks for 2nd (watch starts) and then the watch is stopped when the ball hits catchers glove. This shows how fast the pitcher gets the ball to the plate.

 

It all depends on if the runner gets a good jump, the pitch thrown, (fastball, curve, splitter, and so on), where the pitch is delivered, and if the batter is a righty or lefty."

[STRIKE3]

A Catchers Pop-Time can be excellent (1.8 - 2.0) but you are correct, if you are attempting to throw out a runner, the "Release Time of the Pitcher", certainly factors into being able to get any runner out.

 

The amount of time, for the ball to get out of catcher's mitt, to the infielder's glove, when throwing to 2B.

 

A Pitcher's release time, is subtracted from the Runner's time to steal 2B and then the "Pop-Time" must be within the range, of that base-runners speed.

 

A very good HS base runners speed, is around 3.5 seconds. If the combination of Pitchers release and Catchers Pop-Time, can be within than time frame, than they have a chance with an accurate throw.

[Play 2 Win]

Pop times are useless in high school, but I think what D1 schools and pro scouts know is that the pitcher they have on the hill is getting the ball to the plate pretty quick. I'm not for sure but I think something like 1.3 out of the stretch. that combined with a 2.0 pop time allows them a good chance to throw out most runners.

 

But as we all know, base runners steal on the pitcher at the next level, not on the catcher so much.

[STRIKE3]

Pop times are useless in high school, but I think what D1 schools and pro scouts know is that the pitcher they have on the hill is getting the ball to the plate pretty quick. I'm not for sure but I think something like 1.3 out of the stretch. that combined with a 2.0 pop time allows them a good chance to throw out most runners.

 

But as we all know, base runners steal on the pitcher at the next level, not on the catcher so much.

I respectfully disagree.... I know a lot of high school programs, which time both the Pitchers Release and Catcher's Pop-Time, which is a very effective measuring tool to know if a runner can/can't steal.

 

Especially against LH pitchers, they tend to hold runner more close and knowing the catchers PT, can help devise strategy.

[Pat Dad]

I've timed different catchers before an inning starts and during the game. And the average pop time I get is around 2.1-2.2. I have timed some at 1.9. I've timed a few pitchers and average fastball was getting in the catcher's glove in 1.2-1.4. Now add the catcher's pop times and the average is 3.3-3.6. Enough time to steal 2nd, most of the time. But, the runner still needs to get a good jump.

 

This is why coaches need to know these stats. They need to know what needs to be worked on. It all comes down to fundamentals.

[Play 2 Win]

I respectfully disagree.... I know a lot of high school programs, which time both the Pitchers Release and Catcher's Pop-Time, which is a very effective measuring tool to know if a runner can/can't steal.

 

Especially against LH pitchers, they tend to hold runner more close and knowing the catchers PT, can help devise strategy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I didn't intend to mean it can not be useful in high school. Obviously it can. What I was saying is that generally in high school a great pop time on a cathcer will not stop runners from stealing because most HS pitchers are easy to run on.

[STRIKE3]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't intend to mean it can not be useful in high school. Obviously it can. What I was saying is that generally in high school a great pop time on a catcher will not stop runners from stealing because most HS pitchers are easy to run on.

You are correct, that many times catchers with good arms/pop-times, often have to overcome the release time by the Pitcher.

 

At the same time, catchers with reputations of good throwing arms and pop-times, often will cause the baserunner to do one of two things.

 

1) Shorten his lead and make it more difficult for him to steal.

 

2) Attempt to steal, before the pitcher has committed and often result in getting picked off by the pitcher, or snap throws to 1st by the catcher.

 

Pitchers with slow, full leg kicks could utilize the "Slide Step" or "Chop Step", to help their own release time and allow a Catcher to get the runner stealing, via his pop-time.

[stickymitts]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't intend to mean it can not be useful in high school. Obviously it can. What I was saying is that generally in high school a great pop time on a cathcer will not stop runners from stealing because most HS pitchers are easy to run on.

 

This is why pop times are so important to scouts. Especially one that is watching a high school game. A summer game may be a different story but definitely necessary for high school games.

[Buck Master]

You are correct, that many times catchers with good arms/pop-times, often have to overcome the release time by the Pitcher.

 

At the same time, catchers with reputations of good throwing arms and pop-times, often will cause the baserunner to do one of two things.

 

1) Shorten his lead and make it more difficult for him to steal.

 

2) Attempt to steal, before the pitcher has committed and often result in getting picked off by the pitcher, or snap throws to 1st by the catcher.

 

Pitchers with slow, full leg kicks could utilize the "Slide Step" or "Chop Step", to help their own release time and allow a Catcher to get the runner stealing, via his pop-time.

Absolutely on target. Josh Adams at Pikeville had a 1.8 to 1.9 pop time his sr. year. With adequate pitching nobody even tried stealing and this is where it benefits. Some may have been able to but the coaches respected his arm so much they very rarely attempted to steal on him. As you said it results in a change of plan for the runner and the opposing coaches. It also allows your pitcher the opportunity to not worry so much about the runner. It changes the whole complexion of the game.

[firebird]

Absolutely on target. Josh Adams at Pikeville had a 1.8 to 1.9 pop time his sr. year. With adequate pitching nobody even tried stealing and this is where it benefits. Some may have been able to but the coaches respected his arm so much they very rarely attempted to steal on him. As you said it results in a change of plan for the runner and the opposing coaches. It also allows your pitcher the opportunity to not worry so much about the runner. It changes the whole complexion of the game.

Not only did they try not stealing off Josh, you didn't even stray too far away from the bag, even at second base, or you were for sure nailed. Charlie Collett had much the same impact on the game behind the plate playing for Paintsville as well, with very similar pop time numbers..

[Cardinal1826]

Pop times are useless in high school, but I think what D1 schools and pro scouts know is that the pitcher they have on the hill is getting the ball to the plate pretty quick. I'm not for sure but I think something like 1.3 out of the stretch. that combined with a 2.0 pop time allows them a good chance to throw out most runners.

 

But as we all know, base runners steal on the pitcher at the next level, not on the catcher so much.

I think that pop to pop times are even more important in high school because you may have a catcher with a 1.9 pop time, which is below the major league average. If all of the pitchers he catches are slow to the plate baserunners have the ability to steal on him, giving him very poor stolen base to throw out ratio. Yes, baserunners steal bases off pitchers in the upper levels, but even more so in high school. Pitchers are slower to the plate, more inconsistant throwing strikes, and most have moves that will significantly improve when they move onto the collegiate level. When catchers are looked at by college and professional scouts sometimes a pop to pop time is the only thing they have that will give them a good idea of how good the catcher actually is throwing to 2nd base, because there are so many factors that can skew their thrown out numbers.