Help me understand how a coach can allow his Libero to serve 3 times for 3 different people in a rotation? Is he doing this to only win the match? This club, coach/owner lost all respect from me.

 

Says a lot about whats important to some.

Was this at a club tournament? If so, was it USA Volleyball sanctioned or JVA sanctioned. Not that it matters, as far as I know.

 

I am most familiar with USA Volleyball rules and the libero can only serve for one position. There is a libero tracker that is stationed at the scorer's table and she is responsible for keeping track of who the libero goes in for and who she serves for in each set (game). If the libero served for three different players then an infraction occurred that should have been caught by the scorer table. Frankly, the first official (up ref) should have caught this as well, it would be pretty obvious that the libero was serving for half of the eligible serving rotations.

 

Here is USAV's rules regarding this?

 

USAV LIBERO SERVING RULE

USAV 7.7.1: A rotational fault is committed when a Libero serves in a second rotation position in the same set.

USAV 19.3.1.3:

a. The Libero may not block or attempt to block.

b. In one rotation, a Libero may serve after replacing the player in position 1.

USAV 19.3.2.1: In one rotation, a Libero can replace the player in position 1 and serve the next rally, even if s/he is already on the court in replacement of another player. In this situation, the Libero does not have to exit the court before replacing the player in position 1, and there does not need to be a completed rally between Libero replacements.

Related Rule Interpretations

1. Team A's Libero (#3) is in the game in position 5, having replaced #8. A Libero

has not served in the set. #10 is in position 2. Team A wins the rally and rotates.

The Libero #3 goes directly to position 1 to serve. Team A's #8 comes off the

bench to position 4 and #10 leaves the court to the bench. Both regular players

exchange through the Libero Replacement Zone.

Ruling: This is the proper procedure. According to USAV 19.3.2.1, the Libero does

not have to leave the court, and there need not be a completed rally if s/he is replacing the player in position 1, and is the next correct server.

2. Team A's Libero (#3) is on the court in position 5, having replaced #8. Team A

has a second Libero (#14) who is on the bench. A Libero has not served in the set.

#10 is in position 2. Team A wins the rally and rotates. Team A wants the

second Libero (#14) to serve, so Libero #3 and regular player #8 exchange, and

Libero #14 and regular player #10 exchange. Libero #14 is the next server for

Team A.

Ruling: This is the proper procedure. A team with two designated Liberos may

exchange Liberos freely, as long as the exchange takes place between completed

rallies. Either Libero may serve, as long as it is in only one service rotation position.

3. Team A's Libero #3 has served in rotation 1. In the same set, after winning a rally, Team A's Libero #14 replaces the player in rotation 4 on the scoresheet. #14 goes to position 1 and prepares to serve.

Ruling: Even when there are two Liberos on a team, the Libero(s) can only serve in

one position on the scoresheet. The Scorer and Assistant Scorer should wait until the Libero contacts the ball for service, and then notify the second referee that a rotation fault has occurred. The second referee should whistle to stop play, indicate

a rotational fault, and the first referee should award the rally to Team B. If Libero #14 entered the game from the bench after there had been a completed rally, s/he may stay in the game. If Libero #14 was already on the court, or if there had not been a completed rally between the Libero replacements, the regular player and Libero #14 must exchange, with the regular player going back to position 1. There now must be a completed rally before Team A is allowed another Libero replacement.

4. Team A's Libero, #3 serves three points. The Team A coach now wants their

second Libero, #14 to serve during the same term of service.

Ruling: Per Rule 19.3.2.2 the Liberos are allowed to exchange after a completed

rally at any time during the match, so there is no rule prohibiting this type of

replacement. However, the match must not be delayed any longer than if the same

player had stayed in the game to serve. If there is any delay longer than the normally allowed interval between serves, the replacement is allowed, however a delay sanction should be assessed.

5. Team A's #1 rotates to position 1 to serve. The Team A Libero runs from the

warm-up area, and #1 leaves the service zone directly to the warm-up area. The

exchange takes place behind the end line.

Ruling: All Libero exchanges must take place in the Libero Replacement Zone, in

order for the Scorer and Assistant Scorer to properly note the exchange. Team A is at risk of a delay sanction. Even if a delay sanction is assessed, the replacement, if

otherwise legal, should be allowed.

Correct and... correct.

Help me understand how a coach can allow his Libero to serve 3 times for 3 different people in a rotation? Is he doing this to only win the match? This club, coach/owner lost all respect from me.

 

Says a lot about whats important to some.

 

It's been stated over and over...in club you are paying for the training, and the high level of competition, not the playing time. Who starts, plays, serves... is up to the coach. If your kid isn't doing any of that, they still get the same training and a chance to improve, show themselves in practice, and earn their spot. If you want guaranteed playing time, join a rec league.

It's been stated over and over...in club you are paying for the training, and the high level of competition, not the playing time. Who starts, plays, serves... is up to the coach. If your kid isn't doing any of that, they still get the same training and a chance to improve, show themselves in practice, and earn their spot. If you want guaranteed playing time, join a rec league.

 

Um pardon me... I speak jive

 

Dallas, what they were saying is the coach had a Libero serve intentionally three times in a match for three different players. Playing time had nothing to do with it. If that's not enough information I will spell it out further. The implication is that serving your libero 3 out of 6 rotational spots is cheating. Cheating that I'm guessing took place at a 11, 10, or 9 year old level.

 

Carry on. :popcorn:

It's been stated over and over...in club you are paying for the training, and the high level of competition, not the playing time. Who starts, plays, serves... is up to the coach. If your kid isn't doing any of that, they still get the same training and a chance to improve, show themselves in practice, and earn their spot. If you want guaranteed playing time, join a rec league.

 

Nothing to do with playing time or if this was my kid, because it wasn't. This was about a coach cheating the system to get a win. He allowed a young lady, which has a very very good server, to server 3 times for 3 players which is a big no-no. It wasn't until someone caught what he was doing and called him on it before it was stopped. Up ref wanted nothing to do with it and table didn't catch it. I don't fault the table because they were made up of young players. I fault a coach doing whatever it takes to get a win.

 

Please reread what I said and then the multiple responses that explained the rules.

Let's just quit the pronouns and say who it was. Matt Long coaching TSE 12U. His excuse was that he got "caught up in the heat of the moment". What a joke....

"Caught up in the heat of the moment" can have many meanings. It might mean he wasn't paying attention and the girls, knowing the libero is a good server, let her do it. And what if the libero, wanting to win, took it upon herself to serve extra rotations. 12 year old kids are prone to mistakes. From what I heard it didn't matter in the long run so I say you just let it go. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

"Caught up in the heat of the moment" can have many meanings. It might mean he wasn't paying attention and the girls, knowing the libero is a good server, let her do it. And what if the libero, wanting to win, took it upon herself to serve extra rotations. 12 year old kids are prone to mistakes. From what I heard it didn't matter in the long run so I say you just let it go. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

 

Sorry can't blame this on the player here. These kids know what is going on. This is all on the coach. She was his strongest server and he wanted to get the win. No excuse.

This thread should be moved by a Mod to the "club" sports section since it has nothing to do with HS Sports.

I heard about this at a First Communion party over last weekend and have looked into more over this week.

 

After the match (which TSE won by the way) Matt, and his assistant, were approached by a mom from the NKYVC 11-1 team they were playing when this happened. Matt and his assistant both denied knowingly letting the libero serve more than once. How sad is that...either the fact that two coaches miss something as basic as this or that two adults would stand by and cheat in order to win.

 

Sandman you say it didn't matter in the long run and I am not sure what that means as TSE 12-1 went on to win the entire tournament, so it did matter.

 

And to blame the player? At 12's the players know exactly what is going on. I know the libero and her family and I don't think they would appreciate this being placed on her. She has been playing libero all season and knows the rules of the position. It was not a 'mistake' on her part and she certainly didn't act on her own. Keep in mind, TSE has two coaches on the bench....they both missed it? Not possible.

 

I am told the search is on for video and will be posted if found. Folks are pretty upset about this and TSE is tarnished. After all, Matt is one of their directors and this is what he advocates. I will never believe he got 'caught up in the heat of the moment', Matt has coached at all levels including a long stint at NDA and older ages at the now defunct Team Z. He is saying he can't keep track of a U12 libero because the match is too exciting for him. If you believe that, I got ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

 

There is no place for this in volleyball.

I have definitely seen a Libero inadvertently serve for both middles in a game, especially if they are running a new rotation or sub pattern.

 

A Libero serving for 3 different spots in the rotation? I've never seen that one. Everyone should have caught this before it mattered. Opposing coach, Ref teams coach, (should be at table with girls if it's U12 match), and the R1. Was this in game 1 of a match or a decisive game 3?

 

I've seen a lot of shenanigans in youth sports (sad, but true) but find it hard to believe a coach went up to a U12 player and said "hey, I want you to serve for 3 different kids this game"

We played lots of club ball, and even at 11 years old my girls knew how to track a libero and IF (and big IF) didn't catch it the ref surely would question the server. Not sure how this even happened....

From what I've heard, she didn't serve for three people, she isn't even one of the best servers on the team and this thread needs to be put along with people who believe in the birther movement and those that think 9/11 was an inside job. What you're claiming is just flat ignorant. Matt Long is a respectable man with great morals and if you think he would knowingly have her do that, you must not know him. Conjuring up lies because your daughter plays for a rival club (not you, feeling good. I don't know you) is flat out ridiculous.

We played lots of club ball, and even at 11 years old my girls knew how to track a libero and IF (and big IF) didn't catch it the ref surely would question the server. Not sure how this even happened....

 

It's not possible that someone could serve three times in the same rotation. It just wouldn't happen. A referee of any level would notice it immediately and fix the issue.