I know it's easier said than done, but more fields would solve the problem...I think, but me not to bright

Just following the information on this tread, it looks to me like they did have contingency plans. Drop it from pool play to double-elimination; implement a time limit; drop it to single elimination and keep one field playable so the winners bracket could be completed and crown a champion.

 

The mistake that I see if making it a pool play tournament to begin with. The smaller schools should not be expected to bring lesser skill levels. It should have been double-elimination to start with like the KHSAA state tournament and not nearly as much change and confusion would have been necessary due to the weather.

 

Since the undesirable weather had been forecast all week long, maybe teams should have mentally prepared their players that rainy weather may cause delays, schedule changes and undesirable results for the weekend to minimize the disappointments of a weekend gone awry. After all, it was a great accomplishment to quality for the opportunity to play in the All-A state tournament even though your chances to win got washed out.

 

And, if it was thundering, someone should have spoken up and insisted that they clear the field per KHSAA thunder/lightning rule. Otherwise, all are complicit and wanted the games to continue.

All my posts are opinions...and i agree it probably would make sense to keep it in the same format as the KHSAA state tournament. Reality is...with some of these regions, the small schools do not have the skills to compete with the Louisville Holy Cross' and University Heights. But with good weather, the pool format is doable and gives these small schools the opportunity to play in this tournament (some teams travelling 4+ hours to get in guaranteed 3 games) instead of losing two right away. Just my opinion...best teams will advance out of a pool. Plus, it kind of offsets a "bad draw" and playing the favorite in the first round.

While I feel for those that had to play back to back to back, travel 4 hours only to be told loser's bracket is being dropped, and so on........for some teams this is the closest they will get to playing in a tournament/stage like this. The All A committee is in a tough position when having to make the calls that they did, and a lot will not be happy. It's easy to draw conclusions as to what could of, should of been done. However, I'm sure the committee didn't want to have to make the decisions they did, Mother Nature reared her ugly head and forced their hand.

 

I think the All A does an outstanding job in running their tournaments.

In the 9pm Friday night meeting all possible contingency plans were discussed. The plan agreed upon was that the pool play format was not to change unless things were being pushed back at 7am Saturday. Nothing was pushed back on Saturday at 7am but the entire format was changed to double elim. There was a contingency plan that if Saturday was a wash completely or in parts that Sunday would be used to play a 16 team single elim. This idea was suddenly scrapped as well. The idea to make this tourney a double elim was brought up in the meeting(not sure by which coach...sitting near the front at the meeting) When it was brought up it was not accepted in the room as an alternative. The message that I got out of the 9pm Friday night meeting was that the tournament format was to be followed as planned unless the games could not start at 9am. There was no delay for the 9am start. Tournament officials contradicted themselves.

 

Ive been around tournaments for 20 some years either with mens softball or fastpitch. I understand the nature of how things are ran. You arent going to make decisions that please everyone. I knew as soon as it went to double elim that we COULD NOT lose. We did.

Congrats to Lou Holy Cross (even though one of your chaperones was complaining of noise from our rooms at 830pm...really? 830?)

Congrats to Brossart

These types of things happen all the time, at all levels. You want to know who got shafted by having a tournament drop its losers bracket last year? All of the college seniors playing on losers bracket teams in the OVC. That's right - a college tournament dropped the losers bracket and just played with the 4 remaining teams to decide who got to play in the national tournament.

Congrats to Lou Holy Cross (even though one of your chaperones was complaining of noise from our rooms at 830pm...really? 830?)

Congrats to Brossart

 

I hear the Lady Cru party hard. LOL

These types of things happen all the time, at all levels. You want to know who got shafted by having a tournament drop its losers bracket last year? All of the college seniors playing on losers bracket teams in the OVC. That's right - a college tournament dropped the losers bracket and just played with the 4 remaining teams to decide who got to play in the national tournament.

 

So you are suggesting that college seniors count more than high school seniors?

Congrats to Louisville Holy Cross. Good team and very deserving.

 

One could debate on what makes a better tournament of double elimination vs. pool play then single elimination, but that is not the point.

 

The point is, the tournament was planned as pool play then single elimination, but changed to double elimination due to weather, and the reason given was fewer games and quicker tournament.

 

With all due respect to those commenting on this thread and to those running the tournament, and maybe contrary to common belief, but with 16 teams and 4 fields, double elimination takes longer. It's not number of games that is significant, it's number of rounds of games. Look at the attached bracket and you'll see that double elimination would take 10 (or 11) rounds of games with 4 fields. Pool play then single elimination would only take 9 rounds of games (6 for pool play + 3 for single elimination with 8 teams).

 

And that's before the consideration I mentioned previously, that pool play allows for long games and short games within the pool to balance each other out, where as double elimination makes it dramatically more likely for delays because it can effect all subsequent games in the bracket (as seen over the weekend).

 

The pool play also can easily eliminate teams having to play 3 games in a row, as mentioned above.

 

So, either the implication of the change wasn't understood, or there was some other reason (like being able to get down to a single elimination easily). If it's the former, then they shouldn't be running this tournament, because of lack of tournament knowledge. If it's the latter, then they are just deceitful and shouldn't be running this tournament.

 

Maybe they have an opening on the committee and you can help show them the light?

Congrats to Louisville Holy Cross. Good team and very deserving.

 

One could debate on what makes a better tournament of double elimination vs. pool play then single elimination, but that is not the point.

 

The point is, the tournament was planned as pool play then single elimination, but changed to double elimination due to weather, and the reason given was fewer games and quicker tournament.

 

With all due respect to those commenting on this thread and to those running the tournament, and maybe contrary to common belief, but with 16 teams and 4 fields, double elimination takes longer. It's not number of games that is significant, it's number of rounds of games. Look at the attached bracket and you'll see that double elimination would take 10 (or 11) rounds of games with 4 fields. Pool play then single elimination would only take 9 rounds of games (6 for pool play + 3 for single elimination with 8 teams).

 

And that's before the consideration I mentioned previously, that pool play allows for long games and short games within the pool to balance each other out, where as double elimination makes it dramatically more likely for delays because it can effect all subsequent games in the bracket (as seen over the weekend).

 

The pool play also can easily eliminate teams having to play 3 games in a row, as mentioned above.

 

So, either the implication of the change wasn't understood, or there was some other reason (like being able to get down to a single elimination easily). If it's the former, then they shouldn't be running this tournament, because of lack of tournament knowledge. If it's the latter, then they are just deceitful and shouldn't be running this tournament.

 

 

You are making waaaayyyy too much sense! This forum is not the place for that

So you are suggesting that college seniors count more than high school seniors?

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Glad you understood that so well.

 

NO, the point is that if a tournament at a higher level than high school that determines who plays in a national championship tournament can be shortened due to rain and drops the losers bracket, then it isn't such a travesty when a mid-season HS tournament does the same. The point was made to illustrate that this isn't some miscarriage of justice, when people at higher levels of the game are making the same determinations for tournaments that have a lot more at stake.

 

In terms of the players, YES, I do think it is a bigger deal that a number of ladies' softball playing careers ended prematurely due to this kind of decision versus a mid-season tournament being shortened. At least those girls have the rest of the season to play, regardless of the outcome of that tournament. And that applies equally to HS and college. The timing and importance of the tournament obviously matters.

 

I hope that clears it up for you.

I never said eliminating the teams was a travesty. I think the tourney's decisions were arbitrary, not based on any sense, and poorly orchestrated. They changed their minds without any reason and made a decision which only made things worse, not better. Their decision to cut the tourney short due to weather sounds very reasonable, it happens. But their decisions on Saturday couldn't have been more unsound.

The All "A" Classic, unlike the 16 KHSAA State Tourney, is held during the school year. The KHSAA tourney starts on Friday night, after school year has ended, with all 16 teams playing their first game. The All "A" doesn't get to start till Saturday morning. The KHSAA tourney is not on a time restraint to get finished. The All "A" has to be completed by Sunday, in addition you have teams that have to drive several hours and have to be in school on Monday. This tourney the last several years in O'boro, has faced terrible weather conditions, and when you are playing an outdoor game, you are subject to the elements.

 

With the rain we had in O'boro last weekend, it would have been late Saturday before we could have gotten the fields ready to play, if at all, and if the "double elimination" tourney was continued Sunday it would have been late Sunday night before we had a winner.

 

The decision to tarp one field, enabled them to play on Sunday Morning, the single elimination, which still took a couple hours to get ready to play, because the tarp doesn't cover the entire infield.

 

While it may not be the best scenario, it still gives the small schools a chance to be crowned a State Champ, that other wise they may never get this opportunity!

Edited May 3, 201511 yr by MountaineerMan
clarification