ukbellco14

Not according to the Farmers Almanac Where are you ppl getting this info??????

I totally agree that it is morally and ethically wrong. Just figured I would put that disclaimer out here before I say what I am going to say. However.... using the logic that you describe in the above bolded comment, it would be perfectly fine to water a field down since "both teams have to play in it" and therefore it would give no team an unfair advantage. Now if one team has extra long spike cleats and the other team didn't then that would be cheating because there are rules against that kind of action and it give one team an unfair advantage. The same goes for your referee example since there is an obvious bias and it gives another team an unfair advantage. However, the actual watering of the field doesnt really give a team an unfair advantage since both teams have to play on the same field. I understand the whole argument that "watering the field DOES ACTUALLY give a team an unfair advantage because it neutralizes the speed of another team and may hurt the style of offense they run," but I dont buy that. Here is why..... it is an excuse; essentially the same excuse we hear when a team that has great speed and attacks the edges of the field loses in the rain and says, well we couldnt play our best game because of the conditions. Well they cant use that excuse because everyone plays in the same condition, therefore logically you cant use that excuse if someone waters down a field.

First off.... I dont appreciate your arrogant tone, nor the fact that you want to insult my intelligence and computer savy. However, thats your own issue. If it makes you feel that much better about yourself then go ahead, take all the shots you want. I am pretty thick skinned, and you taking shots at my poorly educated eastern ky mind isn't going to change the fact that: I followed your simple instructions (which were actually very bad instructions lacking much needed detail) and there is no archived weather data for November 21-26, 2004 in Middlesboro/Pineville, KY. The actual instructions should have been described as follows: 1.) Go to weatherpages.com. 2.) Click the link titled Weather History and Archives located 1/2 way down the page and written in bold, blue, underlined type. 3.) Scroll to the bottom of the linked webpage and type in Pineville, KY then hit the Go button to search that city. 4.) You will be linked to a new popup webpage for the current weather in Pinville, KY. About 1/2 way down the page is a section entitled History and Almanac. In this section of the page you can select any historical date. Select any date between November 21-26, 2004 and select the Go button to search that date. 5.) This will then take you to a linked webpage entitled History for Middlesboro, KY on Sunday, November 21, 2004 (or whatever date you selected) 6.) Then scroll to the bottom of that page and you will see in big, bold, red type "NO DATA AVAILABLE." You can check any of the dates between November 21-26, 2004. They all say "NO DATA AVAILABLE." I was sure to be very specific in my instructions, but if anyone wants to just skip all that mess and go right to the webpage, here is the link (the link in my previous post can no longer be retrieved so you will need to use this link): http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/K1A6/2004/11/21/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA Once again..... I stand by my previous comments. The Weather Channel and the Farmers Almanac are much more reliable sources of historical weather data and there archived info can be found in my last post. Considering all this, and the fact that the source you (DaBirdMan) cited doesnt even exist, I am inclined to believe the person who needs to be typing, reading, whatever more slowly would be you my friend. For all the other BGPer's reading this, dont believe me; follow the instructions or click on the link and see for yourself.

Also DaBirdMan.... on a sidenote: I noticed you said that the temperatures for that week according to weatherpages.com were in the low to mid sixties. Those would be unseasonably high for that time of year. Anyone who has lived in Bell Co knows that in late November the temperatures usually range somewhere between low 40's to low 50's, just as the weather channel averages show. The fact that that webpage said the average temperature was 65 degrees and their was 0 precipitation that week should have been a big warning sign that something was wrong with that webpage, and that there was no actual data available as indicated at the bottom of the webpage. I can't remember anytime in late November when the temperatures were in the mid 60's in Bell Co or that it didnt rain a drop.

I wouldnt get so excited just yet Woody. Curious where you are getting your info from DaBirdMan??? I did exactly as you instructed. Went to weatherpages, which had a link called Weather History/Archives. Went to the link and typed in Pineville, KY. The site then automatically linked me to this site: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/K1A6/2004/11/21/DailyHistory.html It was an almanac for the weather in Middlesboro, KY. I typed in the dates of Nov. 21, 2004-Nov 26, 2004. The interesting thing was there was no data or records available for any of these dates. If you scroll to the bottom of the webpage you will see in big bold red letters NO DATA AVAILABLE. The link is right there if anyone wants to check it out to see if I am joshing. Unless they deleted that info within the last 24 hours then I'm inclined to wonder where you got the info DaBirdMan??? In a fit of excited haste I think you may have read the data on that webpage wrong DaBirdMan. I know for a fact that it rained that week. But don't take my word. For a more reliable source of information I went to two places, weather.com (the official site of theweatherchannel) and almanac.com (the official site of the old farmer's almanac, which interstingly enough, gets its info from the NOAA National Weather Service, the most accurate and reliable source of weather information in the United States). According to weather.com the average high for Pineville, KY is 58 degrees and the average low is 34 degrees. The average percipitation for that month alone is 4.35 inches. According to almanac.com the Middlesboro/Pineville area received 1.04 inches of precipitation the week of November 21, 2004-Nov 26, 2004. The majority of that came on Tuesday, Wendesday, and Thursday in which they received nearly an entire inch (.93) of precipitation, most of that being rain, but including rain/snow on that Thursday. The old farmers almanac info. is right on track with the weather channels averages. If you take that info, plus these facts: 1.) It was the next to last week of the season, meaning the wear and tear of the HS season was at its peak 2.) It undoubtedly rained throughout the season, including the week before (you can check the old farmers almanac for this info as as well) 3.) Bell Co. is a run dominated team, meaning the field would be in worse shape then other teams fields 4.) Due to natural springs and higher elevations the Bell Co. field does stay much softer then most 5.) Bell Co. uses their field to practice on, and although they do cover the field with a tarp when there is supposed to be heavy precipitation, a tarp only provides so much protection when you are having to roll the tarp off, practice on that field, and then roll the tarp back on. 6.) Middle school football games are played on the HS field throughout the season It is easy to see why Bell Co's field could be in very very poor condition come November 26. I am not making excuses or accusing anyone of lying... just making sure all the facts are straight. I know that when I was in HS we played several games on fields much much much worse then our own during the late season and playoffs. 2 come to mind off the top of my head (Knott Co. and Ashland; their fields were literally nothing but mud). Yet we didnt complain and it wasnt because we wanted to play in those conditions. We hated it. The Bell Co. field in the 2004 game against HHS was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be. It wasnt the best by any means, but it wasnt pure mud or water. I know for a fact, by speaking to several of the coaches, that the last thing Bell Co wanted to do in their 2004 matchup against HHS was to neutralize their own speed by watering the field. I remember a specific coversation in which one of the coaches was very upset that it was raining and the field was in the shape it was because he felt that Bell could match HHS speed, and they wanted players such as Shawn Robbins and Brent Barton to be able to run and cut without the chance of slipping. As a matter of fact, the strength of the Bell offense was the speed of Robbins, and the strength of the Bell defense was their overall team speed. Whether the Bell staff was right in believing this or not, I dont know, but it doesnt matter really. The coaches didnt want the field wet or muddy, so why would they water it? My point in this entire rant is that most of this is completely ridiculous rumors that have gotten waaaayyyyyyy out of hand. 1.) Bell Co. does not water its field down 2.) Bell Co. does not want to water its field down 3.) Bell Co. does not have 2 inch spike cleats stored away for games when they do water their field down (because they dont) 4.) Bell Co. does not purposely leave the tarp off the field when it rains 5.) etc etc etc etc Having said all that..... I will tell Dudley to turn the sprinklers off this season! Just make sure HHS doesn't have any illegal players! :thumb: JK

I have followed your logic at times...... even admitting my mistakes. However on this topic, I am pretty sure saying something "is fair" and saying "its ok because their are no rules against it" is pretty much the same thing. If what you meant was saying "its fair" and "its morally permissable" are different then I totally follow your logic. There are alot of things in sports that, according to the rules, is "fair." However they arent always the "morally right" thing to do even though they are technically "fair." I think that is what you were getting at.

Isnt sayin "its ok because there arent any rules against it" essentially the same thing as saying "it is fair?" I think most would say it is! I dont follow your logic here. What is the difference? Now there is a difference in saying "its fair" and "its morally permissable." However, he didnt say that. He just said "it was fair," which IS the same as saying "its ok because there arent any rules against it."

:thumb: I will make sure we turn off the sprinklers if HHS has to make a trip up to log mountain this season. :jump: I am as passionate about Bell Co. football as any...... but at the same time, somethings just get waayyyyyy out of hand and you have to just laugh.

We have our muddy field..... HHS has their illegal players. Doesnt it all add up to being fair. LOL. JK.

He was simply saying that logically it makes sense.... and logically it is a valid true argument. Do I agree with it morally..... no. But rationally, it is perfectly fine. There are no rules against it.

Amen

This was the same comments that the people in Whitley made last year, when Corbin beat Whitley.

Very good point. It's not like Allen isnt signing to play college basketball, because he is. Allen, although not the athlete of some, is still pretty darn good and will probably have a solid college career. You dont accomplish what he has and not be an athlete with some significant level of college potential. He is underrated athletically because of demographics (the attitude that southeast ky has no athletes), his extremely good fundamentals (like you cant be a smart, sound ball player and good athlete too), and his "team" first attitude (Allen deflects all credit to others).

Every player on SL's team was instrumental to that state title run, but it was obviously Allen who made the difference. He wasnt MVP for being the 2nd or 3rd most important piece of the puzzle. I will end this by saying.... the Mr. Basketball voting would disagree with you.

Doesnt offend me..... just think its a knock on a great basketball player, and a kid of Allen's talent and character shouldnt be slighted like that IMO. I agree... he isnt the great athlete or have the great college potential as former KY Mr. Basketball's, but sooo what! Its a HS award and none of that really matters anyways. I agree that there are some good young players. Once again though..... I highly doubt any of them have the HS career and achievements that Allen had. Sure alot of that was due to SL's success..... but he was the key ingredient to that success.

No SL wouldnt be the same team, but that could be said of any SL player because SL is such a "true team." However, who was more important to their team Proffitt or Allen? It was undoubtedly Allen, not just for his on the court production, but for the intagibles he brought as a leader. A Div 1 player may have more talent, but it doesnt mean he is the best basketball player. I know alot of extremely talented guys, but they arent always the best player. As a matter of fact, in my experience in HS sports the less talented player is usually the better player. Even if those younger players were in the running for Mr. Basketball, they wouldnt even get mentioned. Call me when those players become seniors and let me know if they even get mentioned for Mr. Basketball. The only one with a chance is Crawford, and unless Corbin makes some noise and beats some quality opponents then I doubt it.

Finally... someone with some sense! :thumb:

On the bolded..... then I guess Mr. Basketball isnt a HS award, and should just go to the top ranked college prospect in the state. After all is doesnt matter how great a HS player you were, it just matters how high you can jump and how athletic you are, and not what you accomplished on the court. Allen was not the 3rd best player on his team. He was absolutely better then Hammonds, and although I think Proffitt is a better all around talent, you have to remember that you are comparing 2 totally different positions. Heck, using your logic Allen may have been the 4th best player on the SL squad behind Proffitt, Hammonds, and also Trey Smith. As far as the 13th region goes...... according to you there were 5 players ( Proffitt, Hammonds, Jones, Smith, Crawford) in the 13th region better then a 2-time POY, First Team All-State, State Champion, State MVP, KY Mr. Basketball. I would assume you would also think that Stewart Miller from Middlesboro was better then Mr. Allen since he is a Division 1 walk-on and that Trey Smith for SL was probably better then Allen as well. That is alot of talent in one of the perenially weaker regions in the state. The only player with a chance of having the HS career Allen had is Proffitt from SL, and a big reason for that is because of Allen. Call me when any of the other 5 supposed better players then Allen achieve what that kid did, and do it with as much class and respect as he did.

Gotcha..... I was mistaken then.

No thanks needed....I know alot of other people from the southeast that agree as well. Of course I come from a 3A school that doesnt have to compete with Trinity and X. 3A has been dominated primarily by public schools. I can see where alot of 4A schools are coming from, especially those in the southeast, but I still dont think the split would be good. Class system in football is neccessary due to enrollment and squad size discrepancy. However, there should be no public/private split. Along those lines...there should be 1 state basketball champion.

:jump: I love it..... "2 get over yourself" comments in 1 day! Who did you think should have won Mr. Basketball by the way???

I understand a class system due to enrollment discrepencies. But I think the public/private debate is a joke. Leave it alone.

:thumb:

I dont mind if someone disagrees, and despite what you think I really dont take it personal. I really dont care whether you agree with me or not. I just hate seeing ill founded claims. Just give me some solid warrant to back up your claim and I dont have a problem with you not thinking Allen was or is the best. Yet all ppl can say to that is..... well he isnt the best athlete, or he doesnt have great college potential. Neither of those things mean a hill of beans to me as long as he proves it on the court, and for the last 2 seasons that is what he has done. He now has the hardware to prove it. On the bold: WOW! You finally did it. It must have really hurt to congratulate the kid, considering you werent gonna post on this thread until you saw me posting! That would mean you had no congratulations in order to begin with. Thats a real shame. I believe if Slaughter or anyone else had won your first order of business would have been to congratulate them and then let us know why Allen didnt deserve to win it.

Both voting takes place after the tourney if I am not mistaken. I would be curious to know the actual voter turnout for both the C-J All State and Mr. Basketball, and if every coach sent in their votes or if they even have to vote at all. You also make a good point on the different voting pools.