SilverShadow

No but the teacher/student ratio, would be out the window...

OK

I will try and explain. Due to the immediate impact with ADA funds to the impacted school, the state REQUIRED student/teacher ratios cannot change, so there would be new teacher positions hired immediately. NO public school in KY can accept new students and be exempt from the ratios. Regardless of how extreme the impact would be, the funding process and class determination is already in place. However, it is still not a realistic point, is it? Nobody is closing, etc. But, if it happens, that is how it would occur. This is not a prediction, just a follow of the rules already in place.

I understand most, if not all people do not know how funding works. So I am sorry for the detail above.

Silver-

 

I think what he was saying is that that first year, month, or week will be very chaotic. I am talking to the point you would have to hire police or extra security for crowded hallways. I am telling you it would be disasterous.

This is such a non issue it is silly. It is equal to say vouchers are now available and private schools thrive, close public schools and private schools must pick up the difference. It would never happen and to suppose it as an issue is not effective.

Immediately they would, they would then recover, but everyone's taxes would increase substantially. Those of us invloved with private schools, and tuition for said schools, help those who do not participate in tuition programs, a TON..

IF we are to take your post to the position you make, then what you are suggesting is if the entire student populations of say, Trinity, St. X, etc. were to transfer to public schools, these schools would fail - and I am taking you to mean - they would fail in the mission of education.

The failure to your point is would Trinity students suddenly become idiots overnight? I hardly think so. Rather, I would strongly suggest that if the entire student body was placed into public schools and there would result a trend of positive test scores, thereby making the schools a success. Or are you making another point?

You are welcome I am glad I influenced you. If you don't believe in the Catholic School System then why do you donate?

Never said I do not believe in it. I believe that public education is much more and much better for our society than private education. I find it interesting those who wish for the demise of such (public education) has never or are able to provide a true alternative - as mandated by the Constitution - Kentucky - that is and as determined by legal precedent - federal, civil right. There are room for both and I defend both but not at the expense of each other.

No, my senario isn't a dream its a nightmare for all involved. Newsflash, I'm aware of the fact that public school is cheaper than tuition even if there would be a great increase in the public school population. However, that is because the tax burden would be proposed over a cross section of residents that don't use the services directly. If you think that the people of Kentucky would welcome a tax increase of any kind you are out of touch with reality. Thats fact not fiction. I am also aware that I pay double for my kids education. I do this because I feel that the public schools fail to provide my kids with the kind of education that I feel is important. When you stack Kentucky's public schools against public schools nationwide, if you can make an argument that they are anything but failing you must have some pretty good oratory skills.Please save the speech about recent improvements, where are we now? So I wold suggest that you heed your own advice and take a little ride on the reality train.

OK, will make sure the citizens of Ft. Thomas and Southgate who supported higher taxes join your reality train as well. Also, the ongoing support for schools in our entire area - NorKY. Maybe that is why we are at the top of the state - not only in a geographical sense but in a community sense as well!

Thank you. I figured that was the way it was and agree that sometimes the strings attached end up doing some choking along the way.

 

One of the key problems with public education is politicians. It is an easy way to get votes. Rail against the supposed horrendous job the public schools are doing and promise to change it. And then get elected and you have to follow through with some new or old and being recycled plan for education. So as long as you have unqualified individuals, POLITICIANS, deciding the route of schools, there will be problems.

Actually, you are part right. You need to give credit, where credit is due. In virtually all cases across the country, it was the elected officials - School Board members - who had the courage and risk to file lawsuits on education change and improvement. State elected officials have done a horrible job - especially those in NorKY, save for Jon Draud.

I agree with you if your point is based at this group.

The end result, nationwide is the actions of school boards suing their states to create change. The vast majority of states educational policy in the past decade/two decades is the result of legal actions, not legislative ones. Hopefully, the pending suits in KY continue and make it happen again.

Are you saying NO private schools cannot accept the funds or NO they are federal funds and not state funds.

 

There are a lot of funds that private schools COULD accept but come with strings attached. If you accept this funds, than you have to follow our procedures, testing, etc, etc.

NO - they are federal funds and not state funds.

Yes to second paragraph. There are always strings attached to any money that is provided - private, social, government, etc. Yes they could accept and chose not to. Their option. Also, sometimes the strings are such a burden a challenge happens, as in NCLB lawsuits that are going on.

You would be wrong with this misconception. Kids in public schools can pray. Simply it cannot be lead by the teachers or a representative of the schools. There are Bible studies, WWJD clubs, See you at the Pole events that are Christian based in public schools. And as the old saying goes, "As long as there are tests in public schools, there will be prayers."

And its exercise is becoming more common than most people believe! :ylsuper:

 

 

One side note question not directed to All Play No Work but can a private school accept free and reduced lunch/breakfast reimbursement funds? If so, is there a tie in to accepting state funds that the school now falls under the state guidelines for testing, etc of schools?

No. These are federal funds. Not state funds.

I think you want the catholic schools to fail. It is not Catholic Church has been here for 2000 years. Good Luck!!

I will let my friends and family know I do not support the catholic schools according to Rambo4343. It will help with savings on donations big time. Appreciate the insight!

You are right we should all hold hands and sing Amazing Grace. Ooops can't sing and Catholic/Christian songs at a public school. Might hurt some buddist kids feelings. That is one good thing about the Catholic schools we can PRAY.

Well, if it hurts a buddist kids feelings, I sure hope you do not take any satisfaction in that.

By the way, public school kids pray all the time AND teachers join them on more than an occassion or two. Also, I know of a couple of cases where the students pray to Mecca and feel honored to learn about their practice and faith.

Thanks, you've made my point again. You made these same claims last year as if the government has a machine just cranking out those "growth nickels". And what about the buildings? I guess there are just surplus school buildings to house all these newfound students? No, they would have to be built using tax dollars. The point is you probably are on the "raise taxes, its just a lack of funds" excuse side of the coin. As far as the teachers go, what makes you think that they are just dying to work in your system? They are qualified (some have worked there before) but they work for less in most cases. Wonder why? No, I don't think there would be the transition you project. I think the fact is that the public schools fail and that creates the need and desire for private schools. If my senario actually took place, it would create chaos.

No, your senario is simply a dream. "public schools fail..." Says all it needs to say. As for the growth nickel, it still is cheaper than tuition. Regardless, deal with facts vs. fiction. It would probably make your points better.

Same here. I now see the bias in you. Your true colors are shinning through. :walk:

What colors are that? I will make a point to ask the private school administrators I work with if they are hated. I will also make a point to ask other public school administrators if they feel hated by private school parents/supporters. Interesting.

Where do you think "Growth Nickel" funds come from?

Der!!!

 

And the answer to your question. Come on in. Oh and I never said anything negative about public schools. Just stating facts as to why the KHSAA needs to leave the system as the way it is. Show me one time where I said I hate public schools. I may have said I hate public school administrators, but not the system as a whole.

At least now we are starting to see the bias. Thanks!

Where do you think "Growth Nickel" funds come from?

Der!!!

It would be quite a bit cheaper than tuition! :thumb:

LSUROCK-

 

They don't understand if we shut down the private schools and put them in the public schools what effect it will have on taxes. They don't understand you got to expand your school now, add more classrooms, hire more teachers, more food for the cafeteria, They do not think about these things because the state gives them what they want (NOT all the time, but sometimes).

 

They also do realize the sacrifices the catholic schools have done to keep taxes down. To me I would beg and plead the catholic schools to stay open. If you think you paycheck is low now, wait until the schools actually close(which will never happen) and see how much you have to pay for city/county taxes. So I guess you are right where do they report to school tomorrow. WOW what a chaotic day. I bet the counselors of these public schools beg for them to keep the private schools open.

The impacted school districts would qualify for the "growth nickel", the schools would gain immediate ADA, the impacted schools would gain the additional allocations via positions and qualify for additional program offerings! Look forward to seeing you tomorrow. As for the teachers, workers and other support staff. Leave private tomorrow and you will have an entire unemployed and qualified staff just waiting for the 25% pay raise! It is not the doomsday you think it is. School districts deal with growth all the time. Some even have several schools under construction at one time. That is not new.

And on a flip note, since public schools are no good in your opinion, why not just close them and have all the kids report to the private schools? Would ANY be turned away, or turned down - would capacity be used as an excuse to not admit?

Why do you have to assume a moral superiority over others to justify your point?

Faith is a strong motivation. And as you said, having a student below average and catching up is VERY REWARDING - something I say is more a calling than anything else. In a public school it becomes more pronounced and with far greater frequency and with equal to/better reward (for the student as much as the teacher).

From the article:

But beleaguered public schools have recently received a small, though noteworthy, boost. After accounting for students' socioeconomic background, a new study shows public school children outperforming their private school peers on a federal math exam.

 

 

Overall, private school students tend to do markedly better on standardized tests. But the reason, this study suggests, may be that they draw students from wealthier and more educated families, rather than because they're better at bolstering student achievement.

 

For the bolded part, would like to have had an explanation of what is meant by the first bolded part.

 

2nd bolded part raises a interesting view. Which school is better? THe one who took a 4th grader reading on a 5th grade level and raised it to a 6th grade level or a school that took a 4th grader reading on a 2nd grad level and raised it to the 5th grade level?

Very interesting article and your question is good. Safe to say both are good but which is better? Not sure, what is your take.

I agree it is not the same as financial aid directly to a student.

Catholic schools on the high school levels do not get lunch program monies and do not take the IDEA monies either.

That is not correct. It may be the case in your experience but it is not the case in many places.

I think you are missing the big difference in financial aid paid for tuition and free/reduced lunch. Financial aid is directly tied to the students ability to attend school, receive an education and be eligible to play athletics. Free/Reduced lunch is not tied in any way, shape or form to the students ability to do any of the 3.

 

In addition, the schools only receive free and reduce funds as a reimbursement not up front and they spend it to buy goods and services. It is called a reimbursement fund. THe school is NOT Directly involved in the process that determines who gets the funds and who does not. The state sets the criteria and if you fit the criteria you receive it.

 

Contrast that with financial aid that private schools receive and I assume that each private school makes the determination for themselves on who receives financial aid.

 

So the argument that free/reduced lunch is somehow equilivant does not hold water. The local school system is NOT directly involved with determining whom is going to receive this money and whom is not. Where in the private school, the private school is DIRECTLY determining who will receive the money and who will not.

You are correct but that is not the point. To suggest there is NO underwriting to private education costs is not valid. Further, add the Title 1 programs, IDEA reimbursements, etc. you then get into a level of expenditures that amount to a fair dollar package. The point made was NO government funds are provided to private schools. The fact is, it does happen. The delivery system is really not the point, the money still goes into a source that is non public.

BG I may agree for the most part with this but, that last statement which you call a fact is not a fact.

 

It said "If this kind of time and effort was spent on improving the public school systems, think about what we could get done as a nation"

 

My arguement in my last post is that this is already being done. :thumb:

Without any doubt whatsoever!

So you are saying that private schools receive public funds to educate their students? If a disadvantaged kid receives benefits that supplies him with food, that is no benefit to a school. Although I think it is a little slippery of you to ignore part B of my point. Is a free lunch financial aid? Or is it a benefit for a student that the school helps facilitate? That is probably true of those other programs I'm "uninformed" about. Back to the original point, I asked you to give some examples where a private school is funded by public funds. I guess maybe in your world a simple "Wow. OK, will just leave it at that" will do but in the real world we like actual answers.

No you don't. IF any cost is underwritten by a school for the benefit of a student, what in the world is any school about, save for the benefit of a student? The fact is you clearly stated there are no government funds used in private education. The fact is money provided to schools to use for free and reduced lunch is money. That is not too hard to understand. Further, the grant programs, the IDEA reimbursement, etc. There are plenty of examples and that is a fact. I sense you really do not want to know the facts, but rather hold to a misconception of total independence and that is simply not the case.

Pretty slippery of you. I would guess that those programs benefit students not schools. I don't know of any program that pays the school to provide free lunch, however if you now consider this financial aid it conflicts with the KHSAA attempt of last year to exclude students receiving financial aid. This new definition would exclude a great number (unjustly I might add) of public school athletes.I see a good number of private school kids waiting for TARC busses, I guess you could call a student bus pass a benefit. I can't believe that the almighty NEA and ACLU would allow private schools to recieve public funds. I would say for the most part the answer to your question is no. If you have any facts to the contrary please share.

If you say for the most part the answer is no, then you are incorrect. The facts are out there. I am not going to waste the time to prove what is true. You do not know of any program that pays a school to provide free lunch?! Wow. OK, will just leave it at that. NEA and ACLU have nothing to do with the debate and question at hand. You call slippery, I will say you are simply uninformed on the subject matter.

Start at the top. Please tell us about the funding that private schools receive the state. The poster said they didn't receive any, you claim they do, make your case.

Actually, the post said government. So, to make it easy for you I will ask a fairly easy question: Has there ever been a student at a private school on Free/Reduced Lunch or a private school using extended benefits on any Food Services Contract? Has there ever been a student under IDEA service contract? Has there ever been a student "contracted" due to particular circumstances? Has there ever been a student(s) where transportation has been provided? Has there ever been reimbursement to private schools under various grants programs, Title 1, for instance?

That should give you a start.