greendevil

Strike3 isn't saying that some players don't have reputations - only that the reputation is a result of that players actions on the court - not some insidious scheme by all the officials in a given association to make life hard on that player.

 

Frances

That is fine, but I think that each player should start each game with a clean slate. If they screw off in that certain game, fine, do what they must, but the players that have bad reps are already behind the 8 ball from the start...

Who led Brossart?

...Players get reputations, as a result of their play on the court and not from officials....

How does the reputation of a player get to be known by every official if they do not talk of player reputations?

...offer an "for instance", in which an official either did or didn't do something, that decided a game.....

Tie game, 10 seconds team A has the ball. PG drives and looks to dish but no one is open so throws up a circus shot, doesn't go in, but one of his teammates is fouled on the tip back. two shots, makes both. Team A is up 2. 5 seconds left. Team B gets the ball inbounds and the player with the ball from team B gets pressure from the side but no one in front so he pushes up the sideline. Another Player from team A steps to the sideline at around half court and is barreled over, clearly the player from Team B was out of control, and it should have been a player control foul, no whistle, and player from team B knows he has no time to stop so he continues on to shoot a 15 footer as time expires that goes in to tie the game. Team B goes on to win in OT. Team A coach and players are of the feeling that the game should have never went to OT because they felt there was an offensive foul. The kid from team A that tried to take the charge went 9 for 10 from the line, and also shot over 50 percent from the field and held team B's leading scorer to 10. Theoretically, the player could have made that last foul shot and put the game nearly out of reach. Theoretically he could have shot 100% from the field. Theoretically, he could have tried to move his feet and make the player from team B go around him. Theretically, he could have held their leading scorer to 8. Yes, all those he could have done, but he didn't, and it shouldn't have mattered if the correct call was made....

On a side note, whether admitted or not, some players from teams are "profiled." Officials inform each other to be careful of #so and so on so and so team, this gives these players a hole to dig out of to begin with. Just because they may screw up a time or two, they shouldn't have to dig out of a hole without doing anything. I am aware this comment may ruffle some feathers, but it is the factual truth.

You are entitled to disagree with my position, as anyone else is but I'm the type of person who says "games are decided by players and the decisions the coaches make, regarding those players"...you obviously take a different position and lay blame to refs....I don't

 

I've watch many, many athletic events from youth leagues, high school, college and pros....seen some terrible called games, both ways but what you need to absorb is, teams have their chances to affect the outcome.

 

Baseball - 7 innings (min. 21 at-bats)

Football - 4 qtrs. (min 30 offensive possessions and defensive chances)

Basketball- 4 qrts. (min 35 shots, 8 ft's and defensive chances)

 

Can officials make bad calls at the wrong time, YES....as do players and coaches make wrong decisions, that is why the games aren't just "first team to score wins"....play the entire game and adjust to the flow, players, defenses and calls....part of the game and not the cause of the game.

Players have their chance to decide a game, yes. All I am trying to get across is that some big calls decide games more than what a player can do.... A player will never play a flawless game, nor will an official ever call a flawless game, but in both cases something that one of them does or doesn't do could be the difference.... I agree that in most cases when people are quick to point the finger at officials they are wrong and need to look at player performances, but not every single time.

I see your point ESPNGuy but bad calls are part of the game...

 

You have 2 guys...sometimes three trying to count to themselves for the 10-second call, the 5-second call, and the lane violation. They are watching the ball to see if it was inbounds, out of bounds, and if it was over and back. They watch feet (20 of them) to see lane violations, walking, charging, blocking, 3-point arc, inbounds, or out of bounds, and over and back calls. They are watching 20 hands for fouls, hand checking, who knocked the ball out of bounds, carrying....etc... They are also watching for body contact and positioning for over the back calls. They're listening for called timeouts and bad language. They also have to deal with coaches conduct and bench decorum....

 

There will be missed calls...it's part of the game...you must adjust to how the refs are calling the game...not vice-versa....

 

I think we are on the same side of this issue...just to different degrees!

Completely agree that the missed call is part of the game, it wouldn't be real basketball or nearly as fun if all calls were made completely correct...

But I also say that missed jumpers, layups, free throws, and turnovers are part of the game... whose fault is it? no ones fault, but the blame must go somewhere...

I too think that we are walking on the same street but in different directions if ya know what I mean... seeing all sides of the spectrum...

:thumb: And excuses are for losers....for people who aretoo lazy to put in the real work or discuss the real reasons why they are failing!...and they curse themselves to continued failure!

Agree, excuses are for losers, but also know there are very thin lines between excuses and reasons...

Heres what I'm saying... Everyone always says, the officials aren't perfect. I completely and totally agree. Everyone says that the teams could have done more to help themselves, again completely agree. But what isn't ever pointed out is the common ground here. Fact: Every referee is not going to get every call correct. BUT when people point out that team could always do better, it also has to be understood that there will never be a team that shoots 100% from the field and the foul line. A team cannot be perfect either. If the official can't be perfect, I'm pretty sure a team can't, but it always has to be someones fault... sometimes, thought rare, more evidence will point away from a team than to them...

Wow... I haven't seen Lincoln but have seen Danville and think they are a very solid team... Didn't think that many teams could beat them this bad... Lincoln must be something...

Why do you think that ESPNguy? If the players on the floor take care of business then the officials should not have a bearing on the game. I am an official and a fan. We all agree officials miss calls but at the end of the night when you look back at the missed shots, the missed executions on offense, and the lack of defensive execution, you see why a team loses a game. Blaming the officials is usually an excuse that fans like to use when their team just didn't get the job done.

I think you are taking my post the wrong way, and I expected people to do this. I did not say that teams lose every game because of officiating. I have seen without a doubt a lot of games where fans, maybe even me a couple times are quick to point the finger when they need to be looking where the thumb is pointing. But to say that there are no games where a call or two make a big difference in the game, and sometime the outcome would be foolish. I am not saying there is anything wrong with making or not making a good or bad call, but sometimes the players on the floor for both teams are taking care of business, and some factor has to decide it at some point. It may be a small or big call, a good or bad call, or even a no call, but eveyone has seen a game before where, just as you can't point to a certain big play a player makes to effect a game, you can point at a certain big call that is/isn't made that may have been the deciding factor. A team could always play better but no team will ever play perfect, so while saying that a team should have taken care of business is viable in many,many, many, many cases, it is foolish to say it applies to every single one.

On a side note, I have much respect for many officials. I know a few and communicate often with them. I know it is a hard job, I fully respect anyone that ever puts stripes on, but I simply don't agree that no game has ever been decided by a call or two...

WOW! Thats 2 and a half extra quarters! there couldn't have been many fouls and both teams had to be exhausted on the floor at the conclusion... I can't imagine how draining/uplifting it would be to lose/win this game...

So can anyone confirm with me that the year I saw OJ Mayo at the state tourney, I DID NOT see Bill Walker, correct?

Officials don't have to justify, or answer that they "make a mistake" on a call....they are accountable to their assigning secretary and not the fans.

 

A call is a call and regardless of when it happened. Too often the blame is assigned to the official, for that "charge" or "walk" at the end of the game, costing one team but what about those 25 missed shots or 6-10 missed FT's...they affected the game being close in the first place.

 

Some ref's are good, in the proper position and still miss calls, while others struggle no matter where they are, but the games are decided by the teams, no matter how much we like/dislike the refs, on that night.

I'm sorry but I disagree with about 3/4ths of your post...

I am not saying that the referee needs to take up the mic and say "My bad I blew that one"to the whole crowd.... I mean when the coach or in very rare cases the speaking captain of the team calmly asks the official about a call they make and they defiantly say that there was no dispute that they made the right call and they are 100% sure that is was the right call without any discussion or explaination... I beleive the official does at least owe an explanation to the coach if he/she asks for one, especially if it is a big call in the game... "Sir can you watch the _________" should be responded with "okay I'll try to watch it" or no verbal response at all IMO... That doesn't always happen...

I was going to include something about your second point in my first post but didn't... Here it is... saying that the calls that are made have less effect on the outcome of the game than stats IN SOME GAMES is absolutely incorrect. Many games where people complain, this may be correct, but all games, no. There are certainly games that are decided by the calls at the end of the game. If a team misses 5 free throws the entire game and end up losing by 4 with some questionable calls, could a better performance at the foul line have helped them, yes, but it was not the soul entire reason for a loss... Its something that a lot of people don't want to hear but with all due respect to anyone who officiates, because I will say if they are good and will say if they are bad, but the fact is that some games are decided by the calls the people wearing the stripes make. Good call, bad call, no call at all, any of these situations does effect the outcome of the game SOMETIMES more than the stats...

Seems to me that they play to their competition...

Holmes ought to see a lot of that in their upcoming games.

They have to force the tempo...

the Whitesburg Gym still in use by LCC is the worst active gym.

Never been to Whitesburg but I know Heritage would contest that... The term "playing on the hardwood" doesn't apply at Heritage... I don't even know what surface their floor is... Not wood of any kind I can tell ya...

^Amazing... they finally pull out the W when they start to hit free throws...

The bracket is bottom heavy...

I know that all officials make mistakes as do coaches and players and there never is one person on a court who makes no mistakes, my problem is when officials make a mistake that changes the game, then denies that it effected the outcome or that it was a big difference. I respect officials much more when they have thicker skin and can admit when they were wrong...

Simon Kenton

I have been in almost every oldgym usedin 15th Region Feds Creek, Virgie, Dorton etc...,but SK has them all beat as the worst

LOL... I remember playing in the old SK gym once when play had to be stopped because one of the lights went out... :lol:

:thumb: Not only is it a little cracker box gym but IMO the flloor is dangerous and unacceptable for high school play especially and they should be made to find somewhere else to play or build a new one ASAP.

Is their gym even regulation size? It seems very small from 3 point line to half court... And don't try to save a ball in Heritages gym... You will either smack in to the score table, the benches, a wall or people in the stands...

Who is NCC's big man?

Kiernan...

Sry Buckman...

The game should have never went to overtime... Dayton was up 10 with 4 minutes left in the game. They were also up two with about 3 or 4 seconds left and Lloyd drove the length of the court and scored on a questionable block/charge/no call that tied the game right before the horn... hard fought game... Dayton was better for about 3 and 3/4 of the game...

Did Dayton win and you simply posted the score incorrectly or did your wife type that?

:confused:

The score was Dayton 68 Lloyd 72 in overtime... It was also Lloyd 72 Dayton 68 in overtime...(???) Looks the same to me?

Final...