eville dad

I agree that X & T offer an excellent education. I am not sure how good of a dollar value it is when comparing academic achievement to the most successful public schools in Louisville (duPont Manual and Male), but that is another issue. However why dont the largest all male schools also strive to extend the educational excellence into the area of competitive fairness in athletics? How can any accomplishment in athletics by X & T be taken without a snicker when X and T enjoy such an advantage in numbers over 95% of their competition? Going back to the original post, its plain and simple a numbers issue. Do any of the N. KY. schools enjoy such an advantage in enrollment figures? If so, I believe N. KY and Louisville would not be so different.

Do the Private schools up north enjoy the same advantage of having so many more kids than the publics? Actually we all get along pretty well down hear in the Ville! Its not so much public vs privates down hear as it is us vs them, them being X and T, us being everyone else (public and private). I dont hear complaints in Louisville about private schools in general as much as I do about the disparity in size of the largest private schools. The big 2 boys schools "T" & "X" just have a distinct advantage because of the larger number of students to chose from to make up a team. I know and admire many within the programs at these two schools. They have some excellent coaches and even if they had similar numbers as the publics they might still win. But it would be alot easier to take if the numbers were more in line. I think it would benefit all of high school athletics if that advantage didnt exist. I've even heard some of the X and T faithful admit they wish it were more balanced so it seemed more fair.

Congratulations Jacob Murton, great tournament!

Brackets will posted after weigh ins!

Murton pulls a 2 seed for the Beast! 135 1 Ryan Cubberly 2 Jacob Murton 3 Zack Kemmerer 4 Max Shanaman 5 Thomas Knapp 6 Shawn Harris 7 Jordan Burroughs 8 Adam Pittman 9 Andrew VanDyk 10 Jaren Day 11 Jon Kohler 12 Dale Fava Thats a great deal of respect doesnt sound as though Jacob is a sleeper anymore! Good Luck!

I AGREE! The problem isnt Private vs Public, noone is arguing about Desales, Holy Cross, Collegiate or some of the other SMALL schools. The only ones really with an unfair advantage are X and Trinity. They are simply to large to only field one team and expect to be considered fair. I have said it before, I would expect both of those schools to recognize this unfair advantage and address it out of good sportsmanship. The 2 largest public schools still have 25% fewer males enrolled, most publics average 40%-50% fewer males in their enrollment than X and T. I have heard so much criticisim of Lex. Catholic I am beginning to believe they may have some ethics issues, but the folks I know at X and T have always been about being fair and doing whats best for their kids. The numbers are only going to go up for X and T, congrats to them for having such great schools that so many kids want to attend. But some kids dont want to attend for various reasons and they should still be able to compete athletically against teams from a student body of similar size, not a 40%-50% difference.

I saw the Jackson vs Bryant match. Jackson got in on his legs and turned him numerous times. It looked like he could have gotten the pin but hard to say. I think everyone was surprised that Jackson was so dominant. It didnt really appear that Bryant wrestled poorly, Jackson just looked really good! Bryant seemed to handle it well and kept his composure. I'm sure they will wrestle a few more times this season.

If they earn it so be it!

Im guessing more publics especially in the larger metro areas are full. I think if a school fields two teams they will be treated as two individual teams and allowed to play full schedules as any other team. I realize this idea of two teams at the two largest private school, (by the way would probably apply at Assumption too) sounds a little radica,l but it has some merit in a lot of ways. Twice as many kids attending the private school of X&T would get to participate in their sports. Both schools would remain extremely competitive because of their tradition, facilities, support and work ethic.

I agree Holmes is outsized in 4A. I dont know how the classifications are established but if you are correct then that means that 1A, 2A and 3A are very similar in size and the top of the spectrum 4A is out balance. Sounds like there is to much of a range in the 4A class. Re-alignment of the classes would help teams like Holmes, but X & T would still be to large to fit anywhere at their current size.

All play, I am not suggesting anything about Henderson County, they along with Lex. Dunbar would become the largest of the 4A's. If X&T both field two teams each team could pull from student bodies of approx 700. Much more inline with the average 4A teams than the current 1400 students at each school. If you look on the KHSAA site it list that as of last year X & T each had approx 1400 boys, the next two largest are Henderson County and Dunbar with approx 1100 boys. The remaining schools are all below 1000 and many schools in the 700-800 range. Your example of Holmes only has around 500 boys, that is a significant difference when compared to 1400 boys at each, T&X. Is Holmes really 4A? What is the most kids allowed to be in a school and still be considered 4A? I dont know that there is a limit. Yet we have limits to all the smaller school classifications. When does a school become to large to be 4A? What is the criteria used for the other classifications relating to school size?

Delta, By the way, cool graphic! I like the "X"

Your right Delta, that wont work, random assignment upon enrollment. When you sign up to go to the school each student is randomly assigned to either the Green or Gold Athletic Student body, could be done by an impartial third party like the financial aid.

I am not suggesting that you limit nor cut any of the kids wishing to play football. I am suggesting that you expand their opportunities to participate by fielding the same number of teams that your student enrollment represents in relation to other schools. I would suggest this solution to all sports not just football.

I am not suggesting that in my previous post, but you bring up an interesting point. Is their currently a limit to the number of players that can dress for a KHSAA football game? While I dont know alot about football, some type of cap seems to make sense? I would think a cap should be realistic and should be consistent by school classification and perhaps even administered by a National Governing Body. You referenced the number of players back in your day (many, many years ago) and I think the number of kids participating today is probably decreasing from then. I think that is a trend that could stand to be reversed so I dont think a cap should be restrictive to kids participation, but should provide a limit on the number of players a team can dress for a game to avoid unfair advantages by one team over another team during the game.

Since their enrollment is the equivalent of two schools, why not two teams?

XMAN85, I agree with everything you say, the tradition, the schools the alumni from X and T are awesome, all schools should use them as examples to pattern their schools and program. I have friends who are students and coaches at both schools and respect them all. But what I dont understand is with all these great aspects of these two schools why wont they level the number of kids to a more appropriate number relative to their competition. I almost expect these two schools because of their high morals and tradition would be the parties suggesting a solution to the difference in size as a gesture of good sportsmanship. I credit you XMAN85 for admitting that you agree at least a little on this being a problem, not many in your camp have stated as such. I think the X and T faithful have to question how great a victory is it to defeat a school with half as many students. Doesn't it just diminish the accomplishment to win when having such an advantage? How many times have you questioned your victories or heard others question it by saying "well they ought to win they have twice as many kids as the other team". All I keep hearing from most people in the X and T crowd is that the size advantage doesnt matter, if they truly believe that then why isnt it addressed and corrected? I think if my kids were in the private school system I would want this situation corrected to remove any doubt as to the fairness of the competition.

I believe the enrollment of the largest single sex Private Schools is a BIG concern of Public schools. Do any of the Private school supporters doubt that this is one of the major concerns? Are any of the Private School authorities willing to discuss a solution to the large difference in the 4A enrollment figures for single sex Private Schools compared to the Public 4A schools. I realize the Private schools want more kids in their enrollment, thats fine but how about a limit on the number of kids to support a team. Where does it stop, 2000, 2500, 3000? Its not realistic to create a 5A for the few teams that would qualify, there just arent enough schools that large. This problem affects all sports. Could these largest schools consider fielding two teams. It sounds crazy at first but has a lot of positive aspects to it, especially for the Private school kids. It is a solution to just one of the issues, if you care to discuss it and there are alot of different ways it could be accomplished.

Woodsrider, I agree IN is out of balance, I believe there are many Hoosiers who would like to see it fixed there too. I think it would be an easier fix for KY.

Recruiting is going to happen and from all schools. Its to hard to police and its next to impossible to be competitive in the KY HS Sports unless the teams are out trying to persuade talented kids to attend their schools. Its just a necessary evil to KY HS Sports this day and age. I dont agree with it but its there and nothing can really be done to stop it. If all these "competitive" schools are so great (public and private) shouldnt they be able to attract talented kids on the merit of the school and not have to resort to these seedy tactics as recruiting. IMO The most important thing Mr. Branch points out in his letter is the size difference between the big "2" and everyone else. Is there a limit to "4A" schools and the number of students they can have to fulfill their athletic programs. The big "2" have enough boys to field 2 teams and they would still be very competitive. At what point is it to many kids? This has to have been discussed at some of the recent meetings. What was discussed and how will it be resolved. You dont need to split the Publics and Privates apart to solve this size imbalance. With our current classifications why would any "4A" teams be expected to compete with teams with twice as many students? Either establish "5A" class by including "Trinity, X and combining a few 4A public to have similar numbers. or require any teams with that many more kids to field more than one team. I think if you do away with this imbalance many schools become competitive immediately.

I understand about 1A and its at the extreme low end of the numbers and we could argue about proportionate size schools relative to the number of sports, but its not the point. The point is does the KHSAA and the member schools really want fair and equitable competition with mutually agreed upon opponents of similar size and abilities? If so its up to the KHSAA to monitor and manage this arrangement. My argument is all theoretical because I dont have accurate figures but in theory isnt the whole idea about classification in high school sports to keep the schools as close in size as is reasonably possible to allow same size schools competing with one another. Does the KHSAA need to do a better job of monitoring and managing this aspect of high school sports? There will always be the exception to the rule. I was talking with a friend about this subject tonite at the football game and he told me about his high school football team years ago in Northeastern Ohio of only 35 players, ranked #1 all season and finished #1 amongst all teams. Every so many years the 1A champ is going to be so good they could whoop all other class champions. So sometimes numbers dont matter at all, but the law of averages will determine that they do matter more than not and while the system is already in place, it may just need some maintenance now and then.

So is it time for a cap on 4a teams? A maximum number or students allowed at a school before they have to reclassify somehow. We have classifications up to 4A and if for example a school that is 2A outgrows its classification it becomes a 3A. Well what happens when 4A team gets to be to big? There is not a 5A to move into should the KHSAA establish a limit not to be exceeded to remain 4A? Since there is no 5A and its not practical for just 2 teams, should a team that exceeds the 4A limits consider more than one team to fit into the enrollment classifications. I dont think any teams, Private or Public like playing teams with twice as many students to choose from for athletics. This would certainly keep everyone more competitive, which seems to be the ultimate goal and allow more playing time for the students at the largest schools.

I personally hope the problems are not expected to be fixed by seperating Public and Private from Post Season play. I dont think that would fix the problems that exist between the two sectors. It doesnt seem very popular in Tennessee. I have friends and family on both sides and this proposal would hurt all involved. But some serious imbalances do appear to exist. It seems to me the difference is not between private and public but between size and selection process and of course MONEY. SIZE The big two privates St. X and Trinity dont have a huge advantage against the big two publics in JCPS, Male and Manual, in size (about 40% more boys to choose from, privates 1400 vs Male and Manual approx 1000) but they do against most others. I dont hear people complaining to much about DeSales, Holy Cross, Presentation, the smaller private schools. What are the comparisons in the girls sports of the largest all girls schools? How do you level that playing field? When you play Trinity or St. X in football they have 100+ kids in full uniform ready to take the field, some publics that they compete with will be lucky to have 50 kids in uniform on the sidelines. Doesnt that seem out of balance? Have the largest schools just gotten to large? SELECTION PROCESS The Privates and at least Public Magnet schools in Jefferson County have distinct advantages in their selection process over many other publics. Of course the privates select based on financial ability, grades. etc and the magnets supposedly on academics. I know the process at the magnets is not supposed to involve athletics to heavily, but its an extra curricular that is taken into consideration and without a doubt sometimes with more weight than others. MONEY It seems that some publics are at a disadvantage because of their economic limitations when compared to other schools. Lets face it high school sports is not what it used to be, most serious teen age athletes are competing year round or close to it with travel teams, club teams, all star teams etc... Alot of the "off season" competition is much better than high school sports. However some kids are limited to the amount of "off season" participation due to financial issues. This is more of a problem for public school athletes than private school. I would guess the level of participation with sports among public schools is declinining when compared, sport by sport, year by year. Isnt the whole idea of High School sports to get the kids to participate and learn through the sport and to help keep them out trouble? Volleyball is a good expample. Louisville has a fantastic club organization that produces some of the best players in the country. The club is great and I dont see a problem with it, I wish more sports had similar clubs that were as successful. However the best players wind up at a few select schools, mostly Private. Why arent more public school kids involved with this club, MONEY. I dont see a problem with this whole set up until Public high schools are expected to compete fairly against these High School teams full of elite/club players. Its just not realistic. I dont have an answer but its not the same playing field. In these types of circumstances I dont see it ever being competitive. Is winning so important that this needs to change or will everyone be satisfied to compete with the best knowing the odds are stacked against them and satisfied with the moral victory of playing their best? SCHEDULING/SPENDING What about the scheduling, arent the publics held to a different standard than private? I have heard people talk about a "Master Schedule" that public schools are held to but not Privates, is this true? It seems that the privates play alot more out of state competition, is this because they can afford it and publics can not? This could be a positive or a negative, but shouldnt all schools be held to the same standard? Should there be caps put on how much a school can spend on sports, traveling, equipment, facilities...? I know some of the private schools have used public facilities in football for years, will the same be true of publics being able to use the privates new football stadiums? Most complaints that I have heard are in regard to the largest of the Private Schools. Have they simply become to large with to much budget for ALL public schools to be able to compete? We already have classes in Football and Basketball, so its not like the state champions of a given class can claim to be the outright best as it is now. How do you know if you win class 4A that you could beat the champion in class 3A or the other class champions? But you have to also ask the question what satisfaction is there in winning a championship against inferior programs? Should an elite division be established based on enrollment numbers, monies, club teams support???? An elite division that could compete across state lines in post season play. It would be cool to see X and Trinity playing teams from IN/OH/TN like Indy Cathedral, Cincy's St. X Moeller, Clevelands' St. Ed's, TN's Father Ryan in post season play for a National or Regional Championship? This of course would widen the divide between public and private, I guess it all depends on the objectives for youth sports. I dont have any answers, only questions. I hope instead of impeding the competition that a committee could be developed to identify the real problems and work to a common goal.

I dont understand how making a kid sit out his freshman year in sports will resolve anything? What does this accomplish, they have identified problems between Public and Private competing fairly in athletics, what would this penalty do to make competition more fair?