"old"shooter

Old Shooter, correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think Kouns was allowed to officiate at any Rose Hill games anymore??? :idunno:

That may have been the case last year. However, I don' think so this year. Nonetheless, it wouldn't apply to the district tournament.

I believe it would be best to have out of region officials call the tournaments. For instance, 15th Region officials could call the 16th Region and vice versa.

I do want to be perfectly clear in stating that Kouns is a fine and experienced oifficial. No one should doubt his integrety. I certainly do not. However, I still believe he calls a disproportionate number of Ashland games- particularly at home. I again refer to my post #20 for explanation.

So if you are aren't implying that Kouns favors Ashland why do you care if he refs Ashlands games? If he is favoring a team, then the ref must obviously be calling an unfair game.

My post #20 very clearly explains why I believe that having Kouns as an official is an advantage to Ashland. I'll try to be a little less complicated. It deals with being overly familiar with one team and its "habits". That happens when one officiates a disproportionate number of the games of one team.

Did that help?

Ferguson and Bush

I have seen Kouns in action and you're entitled to your opinion of course. What I would like to see is the hard empirical data / statistics that Old Shooter has that shows how this situation benefits Ashland.

 

By the way, I am not even an Ashland fan, but to say a ref is going to call an unfair game even before it is played is a little extreme. Good and bad refs, just like good and bad calls are part of the game. Either work harder to overcome it or go home. Excuses are for just that ---excuses.

Don't misquote me, Over And Back. At least make an effort to comprehend what you read. No one even implied that a referee "is going to call an unfair game". Those are your words, not mine. In fact, I took great care to state unequivocally that I did not believe there would be any conscious effort to help or hurt anyone.

As for proof for my analogies, check out the boxes for the applicable games.

Sounds like someone is already making excuses for a possible Rose Hill loss:D

I don't make excuses. I state what I see as relevant facts and let you draw your own conclusions.

Where do you find me making "excuses"? My only prediction is as to the foul/foul shot situation. The statistics back me up. I'm not implying any wrongdoing by anyone. I would not do that. However, the subconscious works just as does the conscious.

That won't have an outcome in the winner, will it?:sssh:

Kouns officiates a highly disproportionate number of Ashland home games and has done so for years. I would never imply that he cheats in any way. However, he is completely familiar with the habits, personalities, and attributes of the Ashland players and coaches and that works to Ashland's advantage. I would think Rose Hill or any other team would be better served if he were not one of the officials of a district game featuring Ashland and played at Ashland. This is particularly true in this case because I don't believe Kouns has officiated any of Rose Hill's games this year at all. Regardless of what some may say, that is a distinct disadvantage for the Royals.

Some will come on here and say that that would work against Ashland because he knows what to look for from them. I disagree. Statistics, I believe, indicate that such a situation benefits a team in Ashland's position.

I won't predict the outcome of the game. However, I will predict that Ashland shoots materially more foul shots and that Rose Hill commits materially more fouls regardless of the outcome.

Who is officiating?

Both are abominations. However, at least Coulter is well educated.

Coach Romer will have the girls ready. I pick Elliott to win the district.

I never cease to be amazed at the ignorance of most Protestants in regard to what the Catholic Church teaches. This ignorance extends in the other direction also. We would all be better for it if we learned the truth about others before condemning them. But, then, that is probably expecting too much in this day of commercialized Christianity.

16-10 per KHSAA

Elliott County

You are eloquent as ever my friend. Thought maybe the story didn't make the paper due to the late return of the team last night.

The game was at Rose Hill so the return time to the Boyd County area was not a problem. I understand that Tug Valley outscored RH in each quarter.

The box score will probably be in the newspaper tomorrow.

By the way, fine performance by Bonner and also Whetsel for Ashland. I enjoyed listening to the game. Your announcers were in a better mood.:thumb:

Your original post is still wrong, considering Elliott County DID NOT play J.L. Mann.

I believe that was the theme of my last post. I went by memory which isn't good and gave you one item to nitpick which is inexcusable on my part. I certainly stick by the rest of the post. I conclude you cannot rebut any of the rest of my statements.

You still didn't play any premier teams other than Cedar Hill (a loss) and you know it. Cedar Hill finished 6th in the BBC.

Any details? I know the game didn't make it into the Ashland newspaper. From the appearance of the sports page, I guess all the reporters and photographers were a quarter of a mile away covering Ashland's expected win over Russell. Thanks to ballbrain, a true man in maroon, for at least posting the score.

Are you sure you was there? Elliott only won three games in this tourney and didnt even play J.L. Mann. The two teams from SC they played was Southside and Myrtle Beach. Southside is now 26-2 and ranked number 2 in

2A. Those two lossed both came at the BBC. Myrtle Beach is 16-9 but have won 10 out of their last 11. I think a lot of that record is due to a late start from their whole starting 5 because they were winning a state football championship. They are currently ranked #20 in 3A. Myrtle Beach was no doubt the weakest team they played. They also beat a very good team from Canada and lost to the #45 ranked team in the country in this weeks Fab 50 on rivals (Cedar Hill).

 

Now, about the ADI. Do I think the coverage they get is all that bad? No. Do I think it could be better? Yea. But if we are going to base the coverage you get on how successful you are, then Elliott should be the main story everytime they play. They have won every single game they have played inside the 16th region this year, UP TO THIS POINT. Lets not try to argue they dont deserve more coverage because of success. While they has lost games in the All A and state tourneys in the past, they have done far and away more than any other 16th region team in the past 4 years.

 

Now with that said, I think Elliott Co. has a very, very tough game next Tuesday against a peaking East Carter team. Hope to see the ADI there.:thumb:

I was going from memory which isn't good. I thought EC won four games at MB. Actually, it was only three. Other than that, I stick by my post. Other than Cedar Hill, they played teams that were relatively mediocre at the time they played them. By "relatively mediocre", I am comparing them to teams in Kentucky.

As for more coverage, other than in Elliott County, interest in your team is not on everyone's front burner. TDI realizes that. As I said, they are an interesting story just as the Tampa Bay Rays are an interesting story. We root for them because we like to see small schools and underdogs win. However, the great majority of TDI subscribers and readers don't share your euphoria.

As an example, I would cite OJ Mayo. While at Rose Hill, he became a national figure. ESPN, SI, USA Today, etc. were all following him. With all due reverence, that story was far bigger than is your team. Nonetheless, other than Rose Hill followers, some people were interested, most people didn't care, and many resented his success.

That's just how it works. Mayo is gone to the NBA. Soon, your boys will be gone and the gravy train will end.

So, enjoy it as you wish and while you have the opportunity to do so. However, don't blow it out of proportion.:thumb:

Shooter, I never said the coverage was not reasonable. My reponse was to your questionavle statement regarding the caliber of teams played at the BBC. I am still waiting for an explanation in light of each team's current record and ranking in their respective states.

I am very familiar with the BBC since I own property in the MB area and spend a lot of time there. As with most national tournaments, the BBC includes big time schools with somewhat of a national reputation (St. Partick of New Jersey, MLK of California, Wheeler of Georgia, Pennsbury of Pennsylvania, Arlington Country Day of Florida, Boys and Girls of New York, Paterson Catholic of New Jersey, Fayette County of Georgia, and Cedar Hill of Texas). They fill in with other "interesting" teams (Elliott County of Kentucky and Pickering of Canada). And they complete the field with locals (Myrtle Beach, Socastee, and Mullins) and other South Carolina schools (Southside and JL Mann).

My point was that EC only played one of the better teams, Cedar Hill, and lost. In the consolation bracket, EC beat a Canadian team and three of the South Carolina schools. While it is true that the Canadian team had 26 wins when it came to MB, most all were against other Canadian schools in Ontario (not exactly a hotbed for basketball). The three SC schools were and are not top teams in the state. In fact, Myrtle Beach had a losing record (3-7) and JL Mann was just over .500 (8-5) when they played EC. By the way MB, like most in SC, is a football and baseball school.

I based my conclusion on the above facts. I don't want to minimize EC's winning the consolation bracket. Because of their hustle and appearance, EC was very popular with the fans. All in Sandy Hook can be proud of them. Still, facts are facts and the fact is that the teams they beat would have trouble competing in most of our regions in Kentucky.

I would have loved to see EC play St. Patrick or MLK or Wheeler or one of the real top teams. It didn't happen.

I would hope this sufficiently answers your post.:thumb:

It was good to see Gregg have a big game but I thought Rose Hill's unsung hero was freshman guard, Kyle Bush. Rose Hill handled West Carter's pressure well and had few turnovers in the second half because of Kyle's strong play in breaking the press and quarterbacking the offense. He was instrumental in getting the ball down low to Gregg which led to Corey's good offensive game.

Add Mike Terry to the mix and it is easy to understand why Rose Hill's three freshmen are so highly regarded.

Final from Olive Hill.

I can answer Old Shooter. Read the thread entitled "Top-ranked Elliott County Lions are home-grown and loved at home." Then read the article:

 

http://www.kentucky.com/232/story/696873.html

 

That's the kind of coverage the Ashland Daily Independent should be doing.

Why? I realize that your team is near sainthood in Sandy Hook. However, they aren't seen in that light by most others in the Ashland newspaper's circulation area. They are interesting because they are a good human interest story. We root for them because they are a little school that has often been a doormat but is now having success. Everyone is attracted to such a feel good story. But, with most readers and fans, it doesn't go beyond that.

And always remember, in TDI, UK comes first even when they are mediocre as they are this year.

I normally agree with a lot of what you say, but I can't here. You are saying that the reason the Elliott County doesn't get good coverage is because they haven't won "The Big Game". I have to say that is not a good reason, because the paper covers Ashland, Boyd County, Rose Hill, Fairview, Raceland, Russell, Greenup County, East Carter, West Carter, Lawrence County, Lewis County, and several others. What have they won that gets them coverage?

 

Just going on your explanation of winning gets coverage, I would have to say that Ashland, Raceland, Russell, Boyd County, and several other teams are not that strong this year and are getting adequate coverage.

No, I'm actually saying that Elliott County, as a school a good distance from Ashland, gets reasonable coverage. They have been covered well in their Class A and Rupp Arena appearances. There have been nice stories on the Faulkners and Ferguson this year. Their games with Mason County and Louisville Ballard got reasonable coverage. Their BBC appearance was well covered.

I guess I just don't understand what they expect. That is why I asked Matlock to explain what he/she considered "reasonable coverage". It is still a reasonable, though unanswered, question.

I was not being anti-Elliott County by stating that they have really not won a major event. I was only stating a fact. If they win the region and go on, we will all be rooting for them and they will be well covered by TDI. If they win it all, the coverage will undoubtedly be enormous. However, none of that has happened yet and may never happen.

Doesn't really matter, they can get beat tomorrow, but what they have done is bigger than all of us. It means more to a small town than the outsiders will ever know; you are right about everything you have said. :thumb:

Now that is a good, honest post. The Elliott County team has been a great source of community pride for everyone in the Sandy Hook area. No one is denying that.

If Rose Hill can take Logan out of it they may have a chance. If he is allowed to run free up the court and then set up the offense with the first pass West is a little more potent IMO. What is the story on Gregg?

I stand corrected. He may play some after all. That is good news for RH.

You got to be kidding! :laugh: I do not care at all whether ADI covers any games. I understand their situation and I go to all of them anyway, and I understand many, including you obviously have a dislike for Elliott County, but let's try to base our posts on some semblance of fact. Those were all excellent teams and their records since the BBC prove it as well as they way thaey played in the tournament. :idunno::ohbrother::ohbrother::ohbrother:

Aren't we getting a little defensive? Being confronted with facts tends to do that. There were "excellent" teams at MB. It just happens to be a fact that you only played one of them and lost. And, isn't it a fact that you haven't won anything of real significance yet?

People in Elliott county buy the Ashland paper and there are fewer subscribers, that is for sure. This lack of coverage has been going on for several years, not just this year, and many have dropped their subscriptions because of this. The Lexington Herald has much better coverage of Elliott County's ballgames and I've never seen any Elliott County business advertise in that paper. It's a shame that a Lexington paper 1.5 hours away is more interested in the ballteam here than the local paper. The Ashland Daily Independent is the local paper for Elliott County because it is delivered here. Ashland is not the only area that subscribes, many other surrounding counties do also. That is why the Ashland paper is still in business. Elliott County residents are very proud of our ballteam. This team not only represents this county, but the whole area and smaller schools in general, if we make it to Rupp arena.

What would you define as "adequate coverage" for your team? I know they are an enormous source of pride to the people of Elliott County and I realize that you have won two regional championships and are the favorites for a third. I also realize that you beat three comparatively weak teams at Myrtle Beach (I was there) and beat Mason County and Louisville Ballard at home. I further realize that you won your first two games ever in the Class A tournament this year (against the two weakest teams in the field) before, although you were the odds on favorite to win the tournament, losing in the semifinals. And, finally, I realize that you are 1-2 in your two trips to Rupp Arena. So, I again ask, just how much more coverage should your team get?

I'm not knocking your team but merely trying to add a little realism to the situation. If you win in Lexington, I'm sure you will be flooded with coverage. But, to get primetime coverage, you must win something significant. To date, that hasn't really happened and time is getting short since next year will be a "return to normalcy".

I wish you well if you make it to Lexington. However, I don't think you can win it.