JokersWild24

Thanks for the correction.

I agree that would have been a very good team.

Isaiah Tisdale, even as a sophomore, wasn't too bad himself either. He was a big part of what they were able to do later on in that season. They had a few other kids who who could have really done some things off the bench. They still made a regional final and gave Scott County a nice game in that one.

I'm in agreement with everyone else about that being a very good team. I'll take it one further and say that they could have even been one of the top teams to come out of the 11th in the past decade or so.

As Juniors, that same team almost beat Madison Central in the regional final the year they went on to win State. Everyone probably remembers the great games Central had against Holmes, Hopkinsville, and Ballard once they were in Rupp, but they were almost eliminated by the Devils in the regional semis.

Intent is not required to get a conviction for 2nd degree murder depraved-heart from what I've read. That's how the prosecutor is able to levy a murder charge.

Thank you Clyde. Everyone needs to say it with us.

Intent is not required to get a conviction for depraved heart murder.

:banghead:

Intent is not required to get a conviction for depraved heart murder.

:banghead:

Intent is not required to get a conviction for depraved heart murder.

:banghead:

Its okay, I think most ppl end up underestimating LexCath. They always produce one of the more basketball savy teams each year, just a bunch of ballers.

Yes, agreed. You take their consistency for granted, but the proof is in the pudding. This year, I thought they were hurting not having some top-end athletes like they usually have (losing Letton hurt), but they also had some kids to step up. I had underrated Griffin most of the year and was also a really big fan of Ogbogu the more I saw from him.

Well, we agree on something. You can page up or back and find the link.

 

I find the charging language in Maryland Statutes quite interesting.

 

Rev. 10/1/2014

 

Second Degree Murder

CR 2-204

FELONY

30 YEARS

PRELIMINARY HEARING

RELEASE RESTRICTION

LESSER INCLUDED

OFFENSES:

MANSLAUGHTER

ASSAULT

SUB. CONVICTION,

ENHANCED PENALTY

*1_0999*

**MURDER-SECOND DEGREE**

...did feloniously and with mali

ce aforethought, kill and murder

_____.

 

I believe "malice aforethought" would mean intent.

Honestly, we probably agree on more than each of us realize.

In any event, I think you are confusing some of the language.

A textbook case of depraved heart murder would be something like shooting at a car as it goes by and that bullet ending up killing John Doe while he's riding in the back seat. You intentionally shot the gun, but you didn't say, I'm going to kill John Doe, or I'm going to kill the person in the backseat.

I don't see where the "malice aforethought" is, or where you are getting some of the stuff.

I'm 99.9999% sure that depraved heart murder doesn't require specific intent to kill a person like you are making it seem. I think the USA Today article I linked, as well as the code itself, will back that up. Here's another link, this one from the Washington Post, that explains the depraved heart.

What is depraved-heart murder in Maryland? - The Washington Post

In Robinson v State, Justice Adkins of the Court of Appeals of Maryland relied on this extract of extant jurisprudence:

 

"Depraved heart murder is the form of murder that establishes that the wilful doing of a dangerous and reckless act with wanton indifference to the consequences and perils involved, is just as blameworthy, and just as worthy of punishment, when the harmful result ensues, as is the express intent to kill itself. This highly blameworthy state of mind is not one of mere negligence. It is not merely one even of gross criminal negligence. It involves rather the deliberate perpetration of a knowingly dangerous act with reckless and wanton unconcern and indifference as to whether anyone is harmed or not. The common law treats such a state of mind as just as blameworthy, just as anti-social and, therefore, just as truly murderous as the specific intents to kill and to harm."

And that only proves what I'm trying to say, especially looking at the underlines and bolded.

It's possible that 'intent' may be imputed because the circumstances show that there is reckless and wanton indifference to human life, but depraved heart murder does not require showing that the person intended to kill someone, despite what people here seem to think.

I quote from the link that provides the code. Argue with the link. It says what it says.

 

I do know what it means. I posted what it means. Depraved heart, depraved indifference, call it what you will.

 

All states are different in their requirements. You do realize there is only one charge of murder in Kentucky, right?

Show me the link. Please, post it again, because I'm not seeing it. I linked Maryland §2-204, and there's nothing about intent insofar as you are trying to use it.

And I agree, the practice of law definitely is not your forte.

And all States are different in their requirements on various laws? Wow! I had no idea.

§2–204.

(a) A murder that is not in the first degree under § 2-201 of this subtitle is in the second degree.

(b) A person who commits a murder in the second degree is guilty of a felony and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 30 years.

GAM-Article - Criminal Law, Section 2-204

I don't see the word 'intent' anywhere in there.

Let me preface this by pointing out that the study of law is not my forte.

 

With that, from what I have read there are different types/categories/degree of 2nd degree murder and "depraved-heart" does not require that the person had the intent to kill. Key is "reckless and wanton unconcern" as to whether someone is hurt/killed.

This.

I know exactly what depraved heart murder is. Often called depraved indifference.

 

Code Section Maryland Criminal Law Code, Section 2-204: Murder in the Second Degree

What is Prohibited? Intentionally causing the death of another human being.

Penalties Murder in the second degree in Maryland is a felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison.

 

Maryland abolished the death penalty in 2013. However, even before then, capital punishment was only possible for first-degree murder.

 

Copied from the link I provided. As you see, it states intentionally causing the death of another human being.

 

It says what it says.

Read the code that you quoted yourself. Better yet, paste the link.

I see Maryland §2-204 saying that second degree murder is all murder that isn't first degree murder. That's it.

I've read a lot of Code, and have never seen any that says "What is prohibited?". I don't think you know what depraved heart murder is by the way you are talking about it because by it's own definition there isn't a specific intent to kill (that would make it first degree murder).

I searched the Maryland statutes and they say nothing about depraved heart murder. You are welcome to read the link I provided.

 

I think from what little we know, they may have a solid manslaughter case. It is fairly routine for a prosecutor to over charge and have the lesser included offenses to fall back on.

I've read the code. Any murder that isn't first degree murder is second degree. Depraved heart murder is a type of second degree murder. It's not specifically listed as 'depraved heart', but it's still second degree. You don't have to have intent for it. If there were intent, then it'd be first degree.

What is 'depraved-heart' murder?

That's why I said based on the evidence we have.

Based on the evidence there, it doesn't look good for the officers. Even if the guy was repeatedly hitting his head over and over, they'd failed to restrain him and didn't stop him when he was a danger to himself. That might not be murder, but there's a charge I'm sure.

The biggest question for me is how he actually died. If we know that, then it becomes much clearer.

Here is a link stating a 2nd degree murder charge in Maryland requires intent.

 

Maryland Second-Degree Murder

2nd Degree Depraved Heart Murder doesn't require intent. By it's own definition, depraved heart murder kind of rules out intent. All I saw was a statute saying that any murder that wasn't first degree murder was second degree.

I keep up with the news and stuff more than you think and try to read both sides.

So if he was put into the van alive, how can the 4 cops who arrested him be responsible for how he came out.

And now I know.

So based on the evidence as we know it, is munder the correct charge?

Not sure. Need more info. Something went wrong for sure though.

They are pursuing murder charges as too satisfy the black community. As long as the black prosecutor, does this she will be championed. And when they obviously won't be able to prove or get the murder rap, the it will once again become the "white privige" thing and we will get more looting and riots.

Interesting. I generally think that places pursue murder charges because someone died.

Sometimes I really wonder if you even believe what you post.

Did I miss something? The link is a map about most homophobic areas, not racist. It also shows about the same among the majority of the country.

Can click on different tabs and it shows searches for various keywords.

I've seen more confidence by rookies in a fantasy draft. Seemed like a bunch of Yes men.

 

Looking at the 2014 draft, it is brutal.

Agreed. I think they were all scared to say anything counter to Vivek. Seeing what he did to Mike Malone, I can see why no one wanted to disagree with him though.

Dude is going to be the death of that franchise if he doesn't slow his roll.

It wouldn't hurt anything.

I used Micro-econ as an example, there are plenty of classes that we all took in college that have near zero application to not only the real world but specifically police work.

I didn't say they couldn't pass a history test but does studying the Ottoman Empire really translate to the streets of South Central LA?

 

My point is that I'd rather they be in a Forensic's class, Law class, Police Policies Class or some other class more closely tied to do the job than spending time in a Humanities Class or Economics Class...if their heart is in Law Enforcement a Technical Degree focused on Law Enforcement may make more sense that a college degree. Unfortunately those don't exist at this point.

 

Would you rather the Paramedic trying to save your life had another class in Trauma Medicine or a psychology class so they can understand you better while your bleeding to death?

I understand that, but I'm thinking that people are overestimating the amount of general education classes that someone has to take for a degree, or at least the amount of those which don't directly apply.

I'm well aware of that.

 

I was merely pointing out that I don't think the six officers got up that morning and said "Hey, I think I'll go out and kill someone today".

Gotcha. That's me as well. At the same time, it's like the person who leaves their child in a car when it's 100 degrees outside. The child can't open the door and get out and they probably didn't wake up saying "I'm going to kill my child today", but they are still punished.

In other news, water is wet.

The Grantland video is this speaks volumes.

We have to assume those that received lesser charges told the prosecutor about the disregard for the victim. Otherwise, how would the prosecutor have known?

I think the timeline of when the officers was involved is probably a bigger factor than that, but it's just a guess. I read an article earlier about when each was involved and why they were involved (obviously different reasons for some).

This isn't the one I read, but looks far more detailed.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/30/us/what-happened-freddie-gray-arrested-by-baltimore-police-department-map-timeline.html?_r=0

Never said they weren't negligent. I said it may have been unintentional.

If you are conceding that they were negligent-- usually when someone is negligent and someone else dies as a result, that's still called homicide. Doesn't matter if they meant to or not, can still be manslaughter. Not really much else to say there.

1998 and 1999 Clay County teams. Had a guy who led them in scoring a sophomore tear an ACL and was never really able to play again. Worked hard all year to make it back for the end of his Junior season, plays a few minutes at region and a few at Rupp before going down and it's hurt again. Also had two guys who transferred from OBI (which is in Clay County) who'd went to Clay County's public grade schools that were declared ineligible for the 1998 season. Both of those teams were really good, but both could have been much better as well.