WOW!

 

You don't think Linland or Franklin are good fighters?

I answered that question at the beginning of the thread. There were no elite fighters in his class during his reign, minus Liddel and Couture. What happened during those fights? Tito didn't look like an elite fighter to me, did he you?

 

Tito's best years were 2002-2003. Those were the years I would consider him an "elite fighter" in the UFC and in MMA.

 

You can't say there were no elite fighters, because even if they were all bad, the best ones of the bad would be considered the "elite".

 

I'm not saying the Tito from then would even be good now, but he was good then.

 

And Tito didn't fight Chuck Liddell until 2004. That's around the time Chuck took over the LHW division and became the "elite" guy. Chuck was up there as one of the better fighters in 2002-2003 as well, but he became one of the top two LHW's when he beat Tito. Randy and him battled it out for #1 with Randy winning, and then eventually Chuck avenged that loss.

I think Tito would have to be considered elite during his peak. However, I don't think anyone would argue that the UFC is much better now, and has been for several years, than it was during Tito's reign. So, the real question is does being elite when the UFC was much inferior to the current product warrant Tito being a top 10 fighter for the decade? Especially, when you consider how he struggled once the talent pool was improved, while his contemporaries, Liddell and Couture, continued to perform at the same level, if not a higher level.

 

I say no. I do not believe Tito Ortiz deserves to be considerd a top 15 fighter of the decade, much less top 10.

 

So in essence, you were agreeing with me that Tito was elite during his title run? Because that's what I've been saying.

 

 

How could you possibly get that I was agreeing with you that Tito was an elite fighter out of what 5 Wide said. Did you not read the last part of his post, that I will gladly make bold for you here? That's what I agree with.

Tito's best years were 2002-2003. Those were the years I would consider him an "elite fighter" in the UFC and in MMA.

 

You can't say there were no elite fighters, because even if they were all bad, the best ones of the bad would be considered the "elite".

 

I'm not saying the Tito from then would even be good now, but he was good then.

 

And Tito didn't fight Chuck Liddell until 2004. That's around the time Chuck took over the LHW division and became the "elite" guy. Chuck was up there as one of the better fighters in 2002-2003 as well, but he became one of the top two LHW's when he beat Tito. Randy and him battled it out for #1 with Randy winning, and then eventually Chuck avenged that loss.

 

Okay, from 02-03 Ortiz was 1-1. 1 win against the mighty Ken Shamrock and an embarrassing loss to Couture.:confused: Chuck wasn't an elite guy because the great Tito was afraid to fight him.

How could you possibly get that I was agreeing with you that Tito was an elite fighter out of what 5 Wide said. Did you not read the last part of his post, that I will gladly make bold for you here? That's what I agree with.

 

Maybe you should specify what you were agreeing with, because in your original post you did not.

 

And in 5W's first sentence he said that Tito was elite during his peak.

Okay, from 02-03 Ortiz was 1-1. 1 win against the mighty Ken Shamrock and an embarrassing loss to Couture.:confused: Chuck wasn't an elite guy because the great Tito was afraid to fight him.

 

I meant to say 2000-2002. He was 6-0 during those 2 years.

Maybe you should specify what you were agreeing with, because in your original post you did not.

And in 5W's first sentence he said that Tito was elite during his peak.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Did you not read the rest of 5W's post?

 

I meant to say 2000-2002. He was 6-0 during those 2 years.

 

6-0 huh? What competition he faced during that time!!!! A lot of casual fans get caught up in the whole UFC marketing ploy for Tito, and believe he was actually a great fighter. I guess they had no choice but to promote him like crazy back then because they never really had a lot of quality fighters then as they do now. But to say he deserves to be considered an elite fighter for this decade because he whipped up on mediocre fighters for the first two years is a joke.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Did you not read the rest of 5W's post?

 

 

 

6-0 huh? What competition he faced during that time!!!! A lot of casual fans get caught up in the whole UFC marketing ploy for Tito, and believe he was actually a great fighter. I guess they had no choice but to promote him like crazy back then because they never really had a lot of quality fighters then as they do now. But to say he deserves to be considered an elite fighter for this decade because he whipped up on mediocre fighters for the first two years is a joke.

 

I did read his entire post, and I agree with it for the most part. I think Tito historically should be right around the top 15 to top 10. It wouldn't surprise me if many left him out though.

 

And please do not twist my words, or assume that I know nothing about mixed martial arts. I'm not an expert by any means, but I like to think I know a thing or two.

 

Tito Ortiz is not a top 10 fighter right now. But during his 6 fight win streak as light heavyweight champion, he was beating the best they had to offer. He was the elite fighter at light heavyweight at that time.

 

Chuck Liddell was also a great fighter at that time, as was Wanderlei Silva and Randy Couture and Vitor Belfort. But at the time, Tito was considered by many to be one of the best. Was he the best in the world? No, probably not because Chuck destroyed him when they finally met. Randy did as well. But he was a top 5 fighter in the world at light heavyweight at the time. Not many people (other than Chuck and Randy) could stop him from taking them down.

 

I don't think he is an elite fighter of the decade. Fedor, Chuck, Randy, Anderson Silva, those guys have been the best of this decade. Tito is right around the middle somewhere around 10-15 though, based on what he did a few years back alone. Not based on what he's done lately.

 

I agree that he's not a top ranked fighter right now. Probably not even close. He can't stay healthy and his boxing/kick boxing has not evolved enough to keep him ranked high. He has great take downs and can hang with the best (Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida) but he can't beat them consistently.

I did read his entire post, and I agree with it for the most part. I think Tito historically should be right around the top 15 to top 10. It wouldn't surprise me if many left him out though.

 

And please do not twist my words, or assume that I know nothing about mixed martial arts. I'm not an expert by any means, but I like to think I know a thing or two.

 

Tito Ortiz is not a top 10 fighter right now. But during his 6 fight win streak as light heavyweight champion, he was beating the best they had to offer. He was the elite fighter at light heavyweight at that time.

 

Chuck Liddell was also a great fighter at that time, as was Wanderlei Silva and Randy Couture and Vitor Belfort. But at the time, Tito was considered by many to be one of the best. Was he the best in the world? No, probably not because Chuck destroyed him when they finally met. Randy did as well. But he was a top 5 fighter in the world at light heavyweight at the time. Not many people (other than Chuck and Randy) could stop him from taking them down.

 

I don't think he is an elite fighter of the decade. Fedor, Chuck, Randy, Anderson Silva, those guys have been the best of this decade. Tito is right around the middle somewhere around 10-15 though, based on what he did a few years back alone. Not based on what he's done lately.

 

I agree that he's not a top ranked fighter right now. Probably not even close. He can't stay healthy and his boxing/kick boxing has not evolved enough to keep him ranked high. He has great take downs and can hang with the best (Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida) but he can't beat them consistently.

 

:laugh: Then why are we having this conversation? I don't think he's an elite fighter of the decade either.