July 22, 200917 yr I don't understand how the two don't mesh. I think you're missing something in my post then... How can a Christian believe that the earth is millions of years old, and believe what the New Testament teaches about Adam, sin and death? Argument: 1. Adam was the first man 2. Through Adam, sin and death entered the world 3. The genealogy in Genesis dates Adam's existence for us, thus, eliminating the possibility that he lived a million years ago 4. The fossil record is evidence of death in the world So, how can you believe the earth is millions of years old, that animals lived and died for millions of years, before the "first man" (Adam) was alive and before sin and death entered the world through him? The two views are not compatible, IMO. Perhaps, I'm missing something, and there is an explanation. But, on the surface, it sure looks like a huge contradiction to me.
July 22, 200917 yr *Crickets* I really thought that last talking point would get at least one response...
July 22, 200917 yr *Crickets* I really thought that last talking point would get at least one response... Oh, I have things to say...but I'm at work and can't devote the thought/time to it right now. Bear with me....I will be back.
July 22, 200917 yr I think you're missing something in my post then... How can a Christian believe that the earth is millions of years old, and believe what the New Testament teaches about Adam, sin and death? Argument: 1. Adam was the first man 2. Through Adam, sin and death entered the world 3. The genealogy in Genesis dates Adam's existence for us, thus, eliminating the possibility that he lived a million years ago 4. The fossil record is evidence of death in the world So, how can you believe the earth is millions of years old, that animals lived and died for millions of years, before the "first man" (Adam) was alive and before sin and death entered the world through him? The two views are not compatible, IMO. Perhaps, I'm missing something, and there is an explanation. But, on the surface, it sure looks like a huge contradiction to me. It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't know what the timeline is/was/would be. Fossil record, well, has science ever been wrong before? Or for those scientists wrong based upon the knowledge that had at that time and then later on garnered new knowledge which made the old knowledge obsolete. Scientists believe what they believe based upon the knowledge they presently have. That is not to say they are correct in how old they think things are.
July 22, 200917 yr It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't know what the timeline is/was/would be. Fossil record, well, has science ever been wrong before? Or for those scientists wrong based upon the knowledge that had at that time and then later on garnered new knowledge which made the old knowledge obsolete. Scientists believe what they believe based upon the knowledge they presently have. That is not to say they are correct in how old they think things are. Maybe it's just me, but that post was really hard to follow... I'm not sure what the point was. Whether scientists are right or wrong is secondary to my point. My point is that from a purely Christian viewpoint, using the Bible as your foundation, accepting that the earth is millions of years old and that fossils pre-date Adam and Eve seems to directly contradict the teachings of the Bible relating to sin and death. You can't say that Adam was the first man, sin and death entered the world through him in one sentence, and then accept a million year old earth and fossils that pre-date Adam and Eve... Of course, I should note that this especially applies to those who claim to take the Bible literally unless it's obvious that symbolism is intended. If you freely allegorize at your own discretion, then I'm sure some explanation can be made for this contradiction.
July 22, 200917 yr Maybe it's just me, but that post was really hard to follow... I'm not sure what the point was. Whether scientists are right or wrong is secondary to my point. My point is that from a purely Christian viewpoint, using the Bible as your foundation, accepting that the earth is millions of years old and that fossils pre-date Adam and Eve seems to directly contradict the teachings of the Bible relating to sin and death. You can't say that Adam was the first man, sin and death entered the world through him in one sentence, and then accept a million year old earth and fossils that pre-date Adam and Eve... Of course, I should note that this especially applies to those who claim to take the Bible literally unless it's obvious that symbolism is intended. If you freely allegorize at your own discretion, then I'm sure some explanation can be made for this contradiction. I personally have no problem with it. Your assumption is that time existed before sin/death entered this world in the same format it does now. There are many Scriptures to indicate that not only did Man change but also that the Earth (creation) changed when Sin entered this realm. If this world was a perfect place before Sin entered it, a day might have lasted millions of years or have lasted a second or have no record of time at all for that day. For example, in Heaven it will be for all eternity, correct? Will we record the passing of time if it is for eternity? Will there be any concept of time if we are there for eternity?
July 22, 200917 yr As far as scientists go, they do the best job they can with what they have. They are sure that their knowledge tells them that something is this amount old. And in 50 years or 150 years or 500 years, something might be discovered or found that would allow them to have a better understanding of fossils and find out that what the scientists of today thought, was wrong.
July 22, 200917 yr As far as scientists go, they do the best job they can with what they have. They are sure that their knowledge tells them that something is this amount old. And in 50 years or 150 years or 500 years, something might be discovered or found that would allow them to have a better understanding of fossils and find out that what the scientists of today thought, was wrong. Certainly, things change. Galileo was persecuted and nearly executed by the Catholic church for promoting that the earth was not motionless, which contradicted christian belief of the day. (I'd think we all agree now that the earth orbits the sun. ) He was teaching the ideas of Copernicus, who, as a church cleric, knew that he would be putting his life in jeopardy by going public with his ideas. His work was published only when Copernicus was on his deathbed. FWIW, Galileo WAS officially pardoned...in 1992. Unfortunately, Galileo died in 1642. :cry:
July 22, 200917 yr Certainly, things change. Galileo was persecuted and nearly executed by the Catholic church for promoting that the earth was not motionless, which contradicted christian belief of the day. (I'd think we all agree now that the earth orbits the sun. ) He was teaching the ideas of Copernicus, who, as a church cleric, knew that he would be putting his life in jeopardy by going public with his ideas. His work was published only when Copernicus was on his deathbed. FWIW, Galileo WAS officially pardoned...in 1992. Unfortunately, Galileo died in 1642. :cry: Didn't he make wine, too.
July 22, 200917 yr Didn't he make wine, too. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: You said this before a LONG time ago...but we would so have fun at a professional development table together! We may not agree on a lot of politics, but we have complimentary senses of humor! :thumb:
July 24, 200917 yr I personally have no problem with it. Your assumption is that time existed before sin/death entered this world in the same format it does now. There are many Scriptures to indicate that not only did Man change but also that the Earth (creation) changed when Sin entered this realm. If this world was a perfect place before Sin entered it, a day might have lasted millions of years or have lasted a second or have no record of time at all for that day. For example, in Heaven it will be for all eternity, correct? Will we record the passing of time if it is for eternity? Will there be any concept of time if we are there for eternity? Well...if you don't have a problem with it, I'll leave it as is. :thumb:
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