We've had a lot of fun discussing the old sub-district format and talking about teams missing the playoffs with great records. From 1959-78 (I think that was the last year) the Dickinson System, a somewhat complicated math formula was used to determine the regional champion (originally) and then eventually district champions. The rules for it all were in a 1959 issue of the Athlete just before the start of the season. Here's how it went, using only district games:

 

Section I

1. First division includes all teams that have won more games than they have lost during the season. Others are second division teams.

 

2. For each victory a first division team over a first division team the winner gets 30 points and the loser 15 points.

 

3. For a tie between first division teams each teams gets 22.5 points.

 

4. For each victory a first division team over a second division team the first division team gets 20 points and the second division team gets 10 points.

 

5. For each victory of a second division team over a first division team the winner gets 30 points and the loser gets 10 points.

 

6. For each victory of a second division team the winner gets 20 points and the loser gets 10 points.

 

7. For each tie between second division teams each team gets 15 points.

 

8. For each tie beetween a first division team and a second division team the first division team gets 15 points and the second division team gets 20 points.

 

Extras

1. No team shall be penalized for a victory in an extra game. To avoid this, the extra game shall be omitted from the calculation.

 

2. An undefeated team shall always be ranked above every team it has defeated, even though the average number of "points" in the season's ratings may indicate otherwise.

 

3. A team with a percentage of .500 is in the second division.

 

4. The champion is determined by getting the average number of points.

 

5. If two teams are tied, the victor is determined by who won the regular season game. If no game had been played between the two, in some years there were playoffs and in some years another formula was used to determine the winner!

 

(Do not attempt to apply this formula until all of the games of the season have been played)

 

Who would like to see this come back?

Here's an example of a final standing. It's from 1967:

 

Class A, Region II, District 2

 

1. Garrard County (7-0-0; 27.50)

2. Frankfort (4-1; 25.25)

3. Georgetown (4-2; 22.50)

4. Scott County (7-1; 21.25)

5. Anderson County (4-2; 20.00)

6. Sayre (4-2; 19.17)

7. Stanford (4-3; 17.86)

8. Burgin (3-3; 15.00)

9. Kentucky School f/t Deaf (2-2; 15.00)

10. Berea (2-4; 13.34)

11. Harrodsburg (2-4; 13.34)

12. Boyle County (0-4; 10.00)

13. Mercer County (0-7; 10.00)

It looks like fun for someone who loves math. I think playing like it is now is best.

It looks like fun for someone who loves math. I think playing like it is now is best.

 

Amen. I can just imagine going home after the season finale and getting the calculator out to determine whether you made the playoffs or not. (Of course the current tiebreaker is similar, but wouldn't be used nearly as much as this old system).

I have heard stories about the Dickinson System, but I don't remember it being used.

 

By the way, none of the stories I heard were in support of it.

Here's an example of a final standing. It's from 1967:

 

Class A, Region II, District 2

 

1. Garrard County (7-0-0; 27.50)

2. Frankfort (4-1; 25.25)

3. Georgetown (4-2; 22.50)

4. Scott County (7-1; 21.25)

5. Anderson County (4-2; 20.00)

6. Sayre (4-2; 19.17)

7. Stanford (4-3; 17.86)

8. Burgin (3-3; 15.00)

9. Kentucky School f/t Deaf (2-2; 15.00)

10. Berea (2-4; 13.34)

11. Harrodsburg (2-4; 13.34)

12. Boyle County (0-4; 10.00)

13. Mercer County (0-7; 10.00)

 

gchs, was that the year that the Lions had a great team but lost a heartbreaker to Bardstown in the Regional? I heard about that team when I was in High School in the late 70's and Garrard had their best team since that one (1978 Wilbur Dunn and Company).

I have heard stories about the Dickinson System, but I don't remember it being used.

 

By the way, none of the stories I heard were in support of it.

 

 

In Boyle's District during the mid 70's (until '79) it was used. The District then was: Boyle, Garrard, Somerset, Russell County, Casey County, Wayne County, and maybe another team. (If memory serves)

 

Boyle and a few others would not schedule Somerset due to some issues from the early 70's when the other Cain (as I call him) was the coach.

 

The result was that each year meant the Dickinson point system was in play to determine who was District Champ and who got to go to the playoffs. In '75 and '76 Boyle had a couple of very good teams that finished 9-2 in both regular seasons. The '76 team had two losses to:

 

1. Frankfort by one point on a late KO return [who was a Class A semi-finalist]

2. Danville by 7 on a late Punt Return [who was a AAA playoff participant and went 10-1]

 

But because of the Point system, Somerset went to the playoffs over the Rebels.

 

 

In '77 it bit the Jumpers when Boyle had more points and was declared District Champ and went to the playoffs over a Somerset team that would make the AA finals the next year.

 

It was a bad system and I remember after the '78 season the KHSAA passed a "new rule" that forced each team to play the other in their respective district.

gchs, was that the year that the Lions had a great team but lost a heartbreaker to Bardstown in the Regional? I heard about that team when I was in High School in the late 70's and Garrard had their best team since that one (1978 Wilbur Dunn and Company).

 

That was 1967. Garrard was 10-0 and had outscored their opponents 401-39 during the season (including a 58-7 win at Boyle; no offense:D). They met Bardstown in the regional final, which was at that time the first round of the eight-team playoffs. Earlier in the week to either the Louisville or Lexington paper, Bardstown's coach Garnis Martin had described the Lions offense as an "OVC backfield."

 

Bardstown won 26-20 on, I believe, a late punt return and would beat Tompkinsville 42-13 the next week before defeating Mount Sterling for the Class A championship. That '67 season has always been a huge "what-if" at Garrard County.

 

As for the '78 team you were talking about, that was only the second winning season since 1967. The Lions went 8-2 with losses at Marion County and at home to Boyle County.

 

The district then consisted of Boyle, Casey, Estill, Garrard, Russell County, Somerset and Wayne. Garrard had beat Casey (36-2), Estill (28-0), and Wayne (26-0), while losing to Boyle (37-12). They didn't play Russell or Somerset, which brings in the Dickinson System. Somerset ended up as the district winner and went on to lose to Mayfield in the championship game. Sam Burke was area coach of the year and Wilber Dunn was first team all-state. Dunn went on then to have a nice career at Kentucky State.

That was 1967. Garrard was 10-0 and had outscored their opponents 401-39 during the season (including a 58-7 win at Boyle; no offense:D). They met Bardstown in the regional final, which was at that time the first round of the eight-team playoffs. Earlier in the week to either the Louisville or Lexington paper, Bardstown's coach Garnis Martin had described the Lions offense as an "OVC backfield."

 

Bardstown won 26-20 on, I believe, a late punt return and would beat Tompkinsville 42-13 the next week before defeating Mount Sterling for the Class A championship. That '67 season has always been a huge "what-if" at Garrard County.

 

As for the '78 team you were talking about, that was only the second winning season since 1967. The Lions went 8-2 with losses at Marion County and at home to Boyle County.

 

The district then consisted of Boyle, Casey, Estill, Garrard, Russell County, Somerset and Wayne. Garrard had beat Casey (36-2), Estill (28-0), and Wayne (26-0), while losing to Boyle (37-12). They didn't play Russell or Somerset, which brings in the Dickinson System. Somerset ended up as the district winner and went on to lose to Mayfield in the championship game. Sam Burke was area coach of the year and Wilber Dunn was first team all-state. Dunn went on then to have a nice career at Kentucky State.

 

Dunn was the only back I played against (or road the bench against if you will. ) that actually struck "the fear of God" in me or those I played with. He was strong and fast but not huge. Boyle was 6-4 that season and we lost three games by 1, 4, and 3 points. Very inconsistent team but played our best all around game vs. the Lions that night.

Dunn was the only back I played against (or road the bench against if you will. ) that actually struck "the fear of God" in me or those I played with. He was strong and fast but not huge. Boyle was 6-4 that season and we lost three games by 1, 4, and 3 points. Very inconsistent team but played our best all around game vs. the Lions that night.

 

Hatz, Didn't you play against Meaux and Parks from Harrodsburg and the big stud from Danville (can't remember his name) in 1976? These three backs were awesome players and all went to UK on scholarships in 1977.

Hatz, Didn't you play against Meaux and Parks from Harrodsburg and the big stud from Danville (can't remember his name) in 1976? These three backs were awesome players and all went to UK on scholarships in 1977.

 

Ooops, I think the the Danville kid went to UK the following year, in '78. It's hard to remember because of all of the head shots I took from Venus Meaux when I used to run around the end and there he was, just waiting, with a grin on his face every day in practice.:laugh::laugh:

Hatz, Didn't you play against Meaux and Parks from Harrodsburg and the big stud from Danville (can't remember his name) in 1976? These three backs were awesome players and all went to UK on scholarships in 1977.

 

I was in 8th grade their Senior year and Meaux was thrown out of the Boyle game (certainly a help to the Rebels cause that year).

 

We played Gus in '78 and he was a great back but Dunn just looked fluid and very tough my Sophomore year. I remember the Seniors that year talking about how great he looked and a key to the big Rebel win was Garrard didn't get to run too many plays because we controlled the ball so well that night. I remember Dunn broke a KO for a TD early and almost broke another before Rall decided to kick as far away from him as possible.

 

Chris Jones was a different kind of beast my freshman year. Add to that the rivalry factor (We won't fear any Admiral) and you would never get me to admit "fear" with a lad in blue. :lol:

 

Actually you caught me in hyperbole and I still hold Dunn as great as about any back from my memories of back then. But that plane would hold Chris Jones with Gus, Nicky Yeast and a few others not far behind.

OOOPPS again. No disrepect to Nicky, but I forgot to include him. He and I played and graduated together. Starting his junior year, he led the team in rushing and touchdowns in the first 3 or 4 games (by a large margin) then he hurt his knee and was out the rest of the season. This was the year Henry Parks was a senior and either led the state in rushing and/or scoring for part of the that year. He wouldn't have done that if Nicky hadn't got hurt. He was really good but he wouldn't have had as many touches if the TANK had stayed healthy. Nicky went on to have a very good carrer at EKU and a national championship as well. Henry went on to UK and was doing good, as was Venus (monster), before trouble set in.

 

In our senior year (not to rub it in, since we got beat on a flea-flicker play the year before and that I'm a Boyle Countian and FAN now), we went to Boyle and Nick had a great game. We won 60-0 and had a great time going back to Hogtown. I think Kevin Rye caught the pass the year before that beat us. Is this correct? Go REBELS :ylsuper::dancingpa:banana:

I have heard stories about the Dickinson System, but I don't remember it being used.

 

By the way, none of the stories I heard were in support of it.

 

Research of Jefferson County football indicates Litkenhous was used at the AAA level (All Jefferson County schools) to determine who made the playoffs. The City champ played winner of County playoffs (originally two teams, then 4teams)from 1959 until 1972. Then the City was split into 2 districts and those winners played each other and met the County champ. The nerger of the two systems and busing ended the use of Litkenhous.

 

AIRVES can provide more details.

OOOPPS again. No disrepect to Nicky, but I forgot to include him. He and I played and graduated together. Starting his junior year, he led the team in rushing and touchdowns in the first 3 or 4 games (by a large margin) then he hurt his knee and was out the rest of the season. This was the year Henry Parks was a senior and either led the state in rushing and/or scoring for part of the that year. He wouldn't have done that if Nicky hadn't got hurt. He was really good but he wouldn't have had as many touches if the TANK had stayed healthy. Nicky went on to have a very good carrer at EKU and a national championship as well. Henry went on to UK and was doing good, as was Venus (monster), before trouble set in.

 

In our senior year (not to rub it in, since we got beat on a flea-flicker play the year before and that I'm a Boyle Countian and FAN now), we went to Boyle and Nick had a great game. We won 60-0 and had a great time going back to Hogtown. I think Kevin Rye caught the pass the year before that beat us. Is this correct? Go REBELS :ylsuper::dancingpa:banana:

 

Kevin caught it and lateraled to Jay Gilliam if memory serves.

 

The 60-0 was burned in our memories (I was a freshman that year) and I always noted that our payback was 50-0 over the next three years .

 

Tank was a great player and Gus was a DB on that EKU team and he blocked the FG that was run in for the Colonel's first TD in the National title game. (Just ask him. :lol:) Venus had a great UK career until, as you mentioned, trouble set in. With Tank, that '76 team might have beaten Frankfort that year. :thumb: