For anybody who is truly interested in how plausible Barack Obama's energy plan is, I encourage you to watch this video, made by Csaba Csere, Editor-In-Chief of Car and Driver Magazine. Csere explains just how ridiculous Obama's tire inflation claims are.

 

 

Maybe you can list some examples of issues that McCain has taken a hard turn to the right on instead of just stating his move to the right in vague, Obama-esque terms.

 

The first example I think of is going from calling Falwell (correctly, I might add) "agents of intolerance" to speaking at his university and seeking his support.

 

Switching from being against allowing torture per the Geneva Conventions to authorizing the President to allow torture.

 

Didn't he switch over to support the President regarding tax cuts after being against them?

 

Bringing Rod Parsley on stage with him at one of his campaign stops can ONLY be due to the far right appeal.

The first example I think of is going from calling Falwell (correctly, I might add) "agents of intolerance" to speaking at his university and seeking his support.

 

Switching from being against allowing torture per the Geneva Conventions to authorizing the President to allow torture.

 

Didn't he switch over to support the President regarding tax cuts after being against them?

 

Bringing Rod Parsley on stage with him at one of his campaign stops can ONLY be due to the far right appeal.

Please provide the approximate dates that McCain took these positions. I believe that you will find that they will range from a few years to early in the Republican primaries. I will not dispute that McCain attempted to run in the primaries as a conservative, although he failed to convince many conservatives that he was a changed man.

 

Since beginning the general campaign, McCain has moved back home to the moderate section of the political spectrum.

 

As I said, it is much easier for a moderate to run as a moderate than it is for an extreme liberal to do so. You may believe that McCain has gone right wing on you, but I do not believe that many conservative Republicans will agree with you.

Please provide the approximate dates that McCain took these positions. I believe that you will find that they will range from a few years to early in the Republican primaries. I will not dispute that McCain attempted to run in the primaries as a conservative, although he failed to convince many conservatives that he was a changed man.

 

Since beginning the general campaign, McCain has moved back home to the moderate section of the political spectrum.

 

As I said, it is much easier for a moderate to run as a moderate than it is for an extreme liberal to do so. You may believe that McCain has gone right wing on you, but I do not believe that many conservative Republicans will agree with you.

 

Everything I've listed is since he became the presumed nominee or actual nominee.

 

I do agree, though, that many on the far right will not embrace him but I do think they will vote for him which is all he (or any candidate) cares about.

Everything I've listed is since he became the presumed nominee or actual nominee.

 

I do agree, though, that many on the far right will not embrace him but I do think they will vote for him which is all he (or any candidate) cares about.

Dates?

Dates?

 

Too lazy to look it up now but I will. Is there one in particular you are curious about?

Too lazy to look it up now but I will. Is there one in particular you are curious about?

No, but I already know that you are wrong about the timing on one item and I am wondering if you are correct about the other examples. However, I am not curious enough to do the research for your claim.

 

Also, there is no actual Republican nominee yet, so the magic date would be the date that Romney suspended his campaign.

 

(McCain voted for the Bush tax cuts in February 2006.)

(McCain voted for the Bush tax cuts in February 2006.)

 

Fair enough. However, it would be naive to think that he wasn't thinking two years down the road when he cast his changed vote.

Fair enough. However, it would be naive to think that he wasn't thinking two years down the road when he cast his changed vote.

True enough but I thought your complaint was that McCain has recently taken a hard turn to the right - and that has not happened. His pandering to the right took place mostly during the primaries. He has since moved back to the center, where he is more comfortable and more convincing.

 

No objective observer is going to believe that Obama is a moderate and not many conservatives believe that McCain has joined their ranks. Although I would like to see McCain name a conservative running mate, I hope that he does not begin making promises to conservatives that he has no intention of keeping.

True enough but I thought your complaint was that McCain has recently taken a hard turn to the right - and that has not happened. His pandering to the right took place mostly during the primaries. He has since moved back to the center, where he is more comfortable and more convincing.

 

.

 

 

Go back in time. When did McCain start gaining notice as a legit contender? 2000? He did it then by being a moderate, correct? However, as he started getting closer to actually having a chance to be the nominee he started migrating to/placating the far right. You accurately point out all of his centrist positions that he still holds. Fine. That's not the issue. The issue is that for those that started to think of him as a legit alternative to the polar extreme he got offtrack and didn't stay true to his "maverick" status. That's my issue with him.

 

It doesn't invalidate him as an option. It just disappoints some of us.

Go back in time. When did McCain start gaining notice as a legit contender? 2000? He did it then by being a moderate, correct? However, as he started getting closer to actually having a chance to be the nominee he started migrating to/placating the far right. You accurately point out all of his centrist positions that he still holds. Fine. That's not the issue. The issue is that for those that started to think of him as a legit alternative to the polar extreme he got offtrack and didn't stay true to his "maverick" status. That's my issue with him.

 

It doesn't invalidate him as an option. It just disappoints some of us.

Again, McCain has not fundamentally changed on many positions at all, and most of he changes were made months ago. You indicated that McCain has recently begun pandering to the right and it simply has not happened.

 

The one big exception is on offshore drillng and I do not believe that you can make the case that drilling for oil in the face of skyrocketing oil prices is a right wing position. More than two-thirds of the country believe that we should be drilling here and drilling now.

 

If you want to vote for Obama, that is your choice but do not claim it is because McCain has become a right wing fanatic because it is simply not true (and I would love to say that it is true).

Again, McCain has not fundamentally changed on many positions at all, and most of he changes were made months ago. You indicated that McCain has recently begun pandering to the right and it simply has not happened.

 

The one big exception is on offshore drillng and I do not believe that you can make the case that drilling for oil in the face of skyrocketing oil prices is a right wing position. More than two-thirds of the country believe that we should be drilling here and drilling now.

 

If you want to vote for Obama, that is your choice but do not claim it is because McCain has become a right wing fanatic because it is simply not true (and I would love to say that it is true).

 

You're hung up on the definition of "recent." I'm not sure why the fact that it wasn't in the last few months matters as many people form their opinions over time. He has changed positions over the last couple of years coinciding with this campaign. He has pandered to the extremists over the last couple of years including the last couple of months. He has changed positions on tax cuts, torture, NSA wiretapping. You'll notice I didn't list "offshore drilling" in my list that I provided. You'll also notice I said he still has centrist views on many subjects so in no way am I nor have I called him a "fanatic." Lastly, I've also said he's still a legit candidate but one that has disappointed some supporters.

 

What's to argue?

You're hung up on the definition of "recent." I'm not sure why the fact that it wasn't in the last few months matters as many people form their opinions over time. He has changed positions over the last couple of years coinciding with this campaign. He has pandered to the extremists over the last couple of years including the last couple of months. He has changed positions on tax cuts, torture, NSA wiretapping. You'll notice I didn't list "offshore drilling" in my list that I provided. You'll also notice I said he still has centrist views on many subjects so in no way am I nor have I called him a "fanatic." Lastly, I've also said he's still a legit candidate but one that has disappointed some supporters.

 

What's to argue?

You (and others) have attempted to portray McCain as a flip-flopper just like Obama. There is no comparison. Obama's flip-flopping began as soon as he locked up the nomination. Whatever positions McCain has changed have occurred over a much longer period.

 

You said that McCain has campaigned as a conservative instead of the maverick (i.e., Democrat) that he used to be. Again, conservatives do not believe this to be the case and the fact that Joe Lieberman will probably be a featured speaker at the Republican Convention and is widely rumored to be on McCain's short list of potential running mates does not support your contention.

 

Anyway, the thread concerns energy and Obama's attempt to paint McCain's energy policy as a far right wing plan by associating him with Dick Cheney. I think that Obama's attempt to turn people against offshore drilling by invoking Cheney's name is pretty sad.

 

Obama's plan of restricting offshore drilling as much as possible while planning to shift to technologies that have not been developed in ten years is foolhardy. I also think that Obama is beginning to realize that his position is one that does not have much popular support. The shot at Cheney was just a desperate attempt to distract from the candidates' respective energy plans.

Anyway, the thread concerns energy and Obama's attempt to paint McCain's energy policy as a far right wing plan by associating him with Dick Cheney. I think that Obama's attempt to turn people against offshore drilling by invoking Cheney's name is pretty sad.

 

.

 

So your main issue is with him trying to associate his competitor with someone who has a bad "Q" rating?

Go back in time. When did McCain start gaining notice as a legit contender? 2000? He did it then by being a moderate, correct? However, as he started getting closer to actually having a chance to be the nominee he started migrating to/placating the far right. You accurately point out all of his centrist positions that he still holds. Fine. That's not the issue. The issue is that for those that started to think of him as a legit alternative to the polar extreme he got offtrack and didn't stay true to his "maverick" status. That's my issue with him.

 

It doesn't invalidate him as an option. It just disappoints some of us.

 

Sounds pretty much any presidential hopefuls roadmap.

When running for the nomination you steer to the base, the left or the right. After securing the nomination, you veer to the middle to pick up mods and indies.

Didn't Bush slander McCain in South Carolina that turned the tide in that nomination?