June 21, 200818 yr What is really getting silly is the tendency of some people to dismiss any criticism of Obama as "bashing." How about addressing the substance of the criticism instead of dismissing it as bashing?. Criticism is one thing. Some posters are jumping on the absolute silliest things, even stooping to childish name calling to make their disdain known. I expect criticism, but please....let it be constructive. For example, for a candidate who takes no money from special interests, Obama's list of bundlers sounds like a Who's Who of Special Interests. What's up with that? Why does the media just repeat the claim and perpetuate the fantasy that all of Obama's contributors are small contributors sending a few bucks in between college classes? Here is another link to help dispel the myth that Obama does not accept any special interest money. The numbers are a bit out of date but the article demonstrates just how little merit Obama's claims that he does not accept special interest money have. Of the "special interest" groups you list, my comments (where I have any), are noted below: Universities-I can see where they support Obama, and I see nothing sinister in it. Media companies-I'll give you that one. Microsoft-Considering it's Bill Gates, it shouldn't be any surprise. Financial companies-That surprises me for the simple reason I would have considered them supporters of a conservative candidate As to the Big Donors, I guess I still look at them as individuals, even when they "bundle". I don't necessarily look at it as if he's done something to counter his pledge. The article states that donations of $200 or less constitute nearly half of Obama's contributions, and that's twice that of donations that size to McCain. Given that the article is outdated, I wonder if that number of small-time voter contributions has grown. Would be interesting to see the newest numbers. My objection to the criticism isn't to constructive criticsm. It's to the criticism born of some sort of elitist disdain. No matter what the man does, some are sneering, but not digging for the complete picture.
June 21, 200818 yr Criticism is one thing. Some posters are jumping on the absolute silliest things, even stooping to childish name calling to make their disdain known. I expect criticism, but please....let it be constructive. Of the "special interest" groups you list, my comments (where I have any), are noted below: Universities-I can see where they support Obama, and I see nothing sinister in it. Media companies-I'll give you that one. Microsoft-Considering it's Bill Gates, it shouldn't be any surprise. Financial companies-That surprises me for the simple reason I would have considered them supporters of a conservative candidate As to the Big Donors, I guess I still look at them as individuals, even when they "bundle". I don't necessarily look at it as if he's done something to counter his pledge. The article states that donations of $200 or less constitute nearly half of Obama's contributions, and that's twice that of donations that size to McCain. Given that the article is outdated, I wonder if that number of small-time voter contributions has grown. Would be interesting to see the newest numbers. My objection to the criticism isn't to constructive criticsm. It's to the criticism born of some sort of elitist disdain. No matter what the man does, some are sneering, but not digging for the complete picture. I believe that you are still missing the point. "Special interests" is the term Obama used. I did not use the term to make them sound sinister. I have no problem with "special interest groups" participating in the electoral process, whether they are industry representatives, unions, environmental groups, or even trial lawyers. My criticism is that Obama sanctimoniously claims that he does not accept money from special interest groups and the claim is demonstrably false. BTW, the list topped by Goldman Sachs is fairly up to date - May 20, 2008. The Washington Post article was published on April 11. Candidates are not required to immediately report donations, so the list that I posted may be the most current numbers available.
June 21, 200818 yr I believe that you are still missing the point. "Special interests" is the term Obama used. I did not use the term to make them sound sinister. I have no problem with "special interest groups" participating in the electoral process, whether they are industry representatives, unions, environmental groups, or even trial lawyers. My criticism is that Obama sanctimoniously claims that he does not accept money from special interest groups and the claim is demonstrably false. I don't equate a handful of universities to a special interest group, as you do, I suppose. First, Harvard, to me, seems like it would be a no-brainer donor. As well, I definitely can see where individual colleges would donate as institutions. Now, had there been, on your list, a donation by a lobbyist group representing all colleges and universities, I'd agree with you. But that's not what I see. And, I found this from opensecrets.org, up to date as of June 2. Now, I have no idea whether this site meets your approval, but I'm having fun exploring it anyway. :lol: Contributions from all donors: Candidate No. of $200+ Contributors % from Donors of $200 or less No. of $2,300+ Contributors % from Donors of $2,300+ No. of $4,600 Contributors % from Donors of $4,600 Nader, Ralph 733 51% 50 18% 2 2% Obama, Barack 141,658 45% 28,215 28% 2,652 5% McCain, John 52,564 24% 15,953 46% 1,386 8%
June 21, 200818 yr Lawyers & Lobbyists Clinton, Hillary $17,645,358 Obama, Barack $17,500,375 Edwards, John $7,824,512 McCain, John $5,661,398 Giuliani, Rudy $4,507,828 Romney, Mitt $3,138,880 Biden, Joe $2,594,563 Richardson, Bill $2,394,274 Dodd, Chris $1,598,408 Thompson, Fred $1,153,119 Huckabee, Mike $380,413 Paul, Ron $255,679 Vilsack, Tom $121,800 Brownback, Sam $93,734 Thompson, Tommy $81,477 Hunter, Duncan $64,050 Kucinich, Dennis $32,582 Gilmore, Jim $31,000 Nader, Ralph $14,900 Tancredo, Tom $12,780 Keyes, Alan $5,050
June 21, 200818 yr Select another state:AlabamaAlaskaArizonaArkansasCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDistrict of ColumbiaDelawareFloridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMississippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew HampshireNew JerseyNew MexicoNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth DakotaOhioOklahomaOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWest VirginiaWisconsinWyoming Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama $741,965 Hillary Clinton $662,800 Rudolph W. Giuliani $208,160 John McCain $188,070 Mitt Romney $187,600 John Edwards $160,786 Ron Paul $122,272 Fred Thompson $60,835 Mike Huckabee $53,788 Joseph R. Biden Jr. $41,300 Bill Richardson $30,900 Christopher J. Dodd $17,297 Tommy Thompson $12,500 Dennis J. Kucinich $7,550 Sam Brownback $5,850 Duncan Hunter $2,500 Tom Tancredo $2,200 Mike Gravel $1,950 Ralph Nader $1,500 Wesley Clark $1,200 Alan L. Keyes $500 Thomas J. Vilsack $400 Total to All Candidates: $2,511,923
June 21, 200818 yr My criticism is that Obama sanctimoniously claims that he does not accept money from special interest groups and the claim is demonstrably false. That may be true, but does it make you feel any better that John McCain, who has reversed several major policy positions to appease conservatives, sanctimoniously rides around in a bus dubbed, "The Straight Talk Express"?
June 21, 200818 yr TOP ZIP CODES IN KENTUCKY 40207 Louisville, KY Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama (D) $76,790 Hillary Clinton (D) $23,300 Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $18,700 John McCain (R) $7,800 Mitt Romney (R) $6,950 Fred Thompson (R) $5,100 John Edwards (D) $5,100 Bill Richardson (D) $2,300 Ron Paul (R) $1,751 Christopher J. Dodd (D) $1,750 Thomas J. Vilsack (D) $400 Ron Paul (R) $250 Tom Tancredo (R) $200 40205 Louisville, KY Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama (D) $47,746 Hillary Clinton (D) $33,858 Ron Paul (R) $11,500 John Edwards (D) $8,550 John McCain (R) $8,250 Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $8,100 Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D) $2,900 Ron Paul (R) $2,000 Mitt Romney (R) $1,800 Fred Thompson (R) $1,250 Bill Richardson (D) $1,000 Dennis J. Kucinich (D) $500 40059 Prospect, KY Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama (D) $42,100 Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $16,800 Hillary Clinton (D) $16,525 Mitt Romney (R) $10,300 Christopher J. Dodd (D) $4,550 John McCain (R) $4,500 Bill Richardson (D) $1,000 Mike Huckabee (R) $1,000 John Edwards (D) $950 Fred Thompson (R) $500 40502 Lexington, KY Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama (D) $28,107 John Edwards (D) $23,901 Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $16,150 Hillary Clinton (D) $11,901 Fred Thompson (R) $3,450 Ron Paul (R) $2,500 Bill Richardson (D) $2,400 John McCain (R) $1,700 Mitt Romney (R) $1,250 Christopher J. Dodd (D) $500 Mike Huckabee (R) $250 40222 Louisville, KY Candidate Total Raised Barack Obama (D) $34,000 Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) $15,800 Hillary Clinton (D) $15,000 John McCain (R) $9,050 Mitt Romney (R) $3,600 Christopher J. Dodd (D) $3,550 Fred Thompson (R) $900 John Edwards (D) $500 Bill Richardson (D) $500 NOTE: All the numbers on this page are for the 2008 election cycle and based on Federal Election Commission data released electronically on Monday, June 02, 2008
June 21, 200818 yr I don't equate a handful of universities to a special interest group, as you do, I suppose. First, Harvard, to me, seems like it would be a no-brainer donor. As well, I definitely can see where individual colleges would donate as institutions. Now, had there been, on your list, a donation by a lobbyist group representing all colleges and universities, I'd agree with you. But that's not what I see. And, I found this from opensecrets.org, up to date as of June 2. Now, I have no idea whether this site meets your approval, but I'm having fun exploring it anyway. :lol: Contributions from all donors: Candidate No. of $200+ Contributors % from Donors of $200 or less No. of $2,300+ Contributors % from Donors of $2,300+ No. of $4,600 Contributors % from Donors of $4,600 Nader, Ralph 733 51% 50 18% 2 2% Obama, Barack 141,658 45% 28,215 28% 2,652 5% McCain, John 52,564 24% 15,953 46% 1,386 8% Again, Obama's claim is that he does not accept donations from special interest groups. Obama does accept donations from special interest groups. Goldman Sachs has bundled more than a half million dollars in donations to Obama. Whether a special interest group is good or bad depends on one's political perspective. Had you followed the link that I provided with the list of Obama bundlers, then you would have discovered that the link was to opensecrets.org - the same site to which you linked. Once again, the problem with Obama's claim is that it is not true and he makes the claim with great emotion and regularity. Obama is repeating a claim that he knows to be false - he is lying whether his supporters like to hear the truth or not.;
June 21, 200818 yr Here's something that surprises me, based simply on our little BGP demographic we have going here: Contribution Details Barack Obama (D) $200-$499 $500-$999 $1000-$2300 $2300+ $4600+ # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total Female 18811 $4,860,042 12252 $6,917,538 11496 $15,497,985 10233 $26,791,321 888 $4,202,875 Male 23505 $6,060,394 16281 $9,159,460 15987 $21,029,019 14860 $39,107,726 1461 $6,945,866 John McCain (R) $200-$499 $500-$999 $1000-$2300 $2300+ $4600+ # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total # Donors Total Female 2850 $738,746 2341 $1,290,977 3323 $4,441,558 4872 $12,353,254 371 $1,801,580 Male 8075 $2,103,547 7753 $4,268,245 10870 $14,008,996 10614 $27,231,485 881 $4,254,126
June 21, 200818 yr That may be true, but does it make you feel any better that John McCain, who has reversed several major policy positions to appease conservatives, sanctimoniously rides around in a bus dubbed, "The Straight Talk Express"?You have come to the wrong place to look for a spirited defense of John McCain. When it comes to campaign financing, McCain is a hypocrite. Does that make Obama's repeated mischaracterizations of his donors more palatable?
June 21, 200818 yr Again, Obama's claim is that he does not accept donations from special interest groups. Obama does accept donations from special interest groups. Goldman Sachs has bundled more than a half million dollars in donations to Obama. Whether a special interest group is good or bad depends on one's political perspective. Had you followed the link that I provided with the list of Obama bundlers, then you would have discovered that the link was to opensecrets.org - the same site to which you linked. Once again, the problem with Obama's claim is that it is not true and he makes the claim with great emotion and regularity. Obama is repeating a claim that he knows to be false - he is lying whether his supporters like to hear the truth or not.; I clicked on the link to the Washington Post article. Within that, there were a plethora of links. I apologize that I didn't follow my search to your satisfaction. If you read further of my posts, you'll see that I acknowledge and post data that supports what you are saying.
June 21, 200818 yr You have come to the wrong place to look for a spirited defense of John McCain. When it comes to campaign financing, McCain is a hypocrite. Does that make Obama's repeated mischaracterizations of his donors more palatable? If both guys are hypocrites regarding campaign financing, I guess we're left with no choice but to look at their major platform differences to make our decisions, right? I just can't see how this dustup about campaign contributions is going to sway many people.
June 21, 200818 yr I clicked on the link to the Washington Post article. Within that, there were a plethora of links. I apologize that I didn't follow my search to your satisfaction. If you read further of my posts, you'll see that I acknowledge and post data that supports what you are saying.My original post contained two links - one to opensecrets.org and the other to the Washington Post article. The following passage suggested to me that you clicked on only the WP link. And, I found this from opensecrets.org, up to date as of June 2. Now, I have no idea whether this site meets your approval, but I'm having fun exploring it anyway. :lol: Obviously, I could not object to you posting material from opensecrets.org because I had done the same in the post to which you responded.
June 21, 200818 yr If both guys are hypocrites regarding campaign financing, I guess we're left with no choice but to look at their major platform differences to make our decisions, right? I just can't see how this dustup about campaign contributions is going to sway many people. :thumb: Agreed?:confused:
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