April 9, 200818 yr Well, it was brought up in another thread that this thread should start so here you go! What about the book of Revelations? What is your opinion?
April 9, 200818 yr We need something to respond to...you stated you believe the entire Book of Revelation is a commentary on the plight of Christians under Roman rule. Why? I suppose my initial questions would be to ask what exactly chapters 11 and 19-22 are commenting on with regards to Christians under Roman rule around 50-100 A.D.
April 9, 200818 yr This is a good description of one interpretation of Revelations as being about Rome http://www.scs.unr.edu/~fdaniels/rel/rev.htm If we look at the book in context we realize a few things. - John (the author) is writing the book as a letter to churches he knows - Much of the imagery is pretty easily interpreted as referring to the old testament and the gospels. - It is very similar to Jewish apocolytic literature. - The "beast" imagery is very easily interpreted as Rome and Babylon is code for Rome since Babylon was one of the powers that occupied Jerusalem.
April 9, 200818 yr This is a good description of one interpretation of Revelations as being about Rome http://www.scs.unr.edu/~fdaniels/rel/rev.htm If we look at the book in context we realize a few things. - John (the author) is writing the book as a letter to churches he knows - Much of the imagery is pretty easily interpreted as referring to the old testament and the gospels. - It is very similar to Jewish apocolytic literature. - The "beast" imagery is very easily interpreted as Rome and Babylon is code for Rome since Babylon was one of the powers that occupied Jerusalem. That looks like a pretty cool page at first glance...I browsed through it a little bit. I'll have to explore it further when I have more time. That was a pretty brief summary of Revelation.
April 9, 200818 yr How is the beast being bound for 1000 years and then thrown into the Lake of Fire Rome?
April 9, 200818 yr How is the beast being bound for 1000 years and then thrown into the Lake of Fire Rome? All apocolyptic literature makes sure the bad guys get their just desserts in the end. If we look at Revelations as a letter to persecuted Christians, a hope for Rome to be judged by God would be included in the writing. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but it's a compelling argument. We see in the old testament prophets saying Babylon, Assyria, etc. will be judged for their crimes against Israel and later books are very similar.
April 9, 200818 yr I don't get the connection in this passage. But as the Anointed One is born (v.5) and kept safe, the Enemy is metaphorically cast down. How? By the crucifixion of Jesus (v.11) and the message of those who adhere to Jesus' teachings. The dragon then pursues the woman and makes war with her offspring, the Jews, and specifically against those who have accepted Jesus as Anointed One (v.17). If the teachings of Jesus were the reason that the dragon was cast down, then the dragon would make war with the followers of Jesus. That is Christians and not Jews. Jews deny Christ as the Anointed One. Am I missing something?
April 9, 200818 yr It has seven heads, which we are told are the Emperors, the Caesars (17:10). Another interpretation will be provided there as well. The heads also represent the seven hills of Rome (17:9), Read 17:9 and 10 and did not see where we were told that they were the Emperors, the Caesars.
April 9, 200818 yr I like the Left Behind version. I was just disappointed that the book wasn't talking about Democrats.
April 9, 200818 yr I like the Left Behind version. I was just disappointed that the book wasn't talking about Democrats. Our New Testament Professor, gave us bonus points if we went through the Passion of The Christ, and Left Behind, and found 40 things wrong with each of them.
April 9, 200818 yr Our New Testament Professor, gave us bonus points if we went through the Passion of The Christ, and Left Behind, and found 40 things wrong with each of them. I remember the campus minister at the BSU at college getting really mad over the Left Behind series and their interpretation of prophesy. He was going to do a study on it but it didn't pan out. He is one of the few progressive Baptists I've met.
April 9, 200818 yr I don't get the connection in this passage. But as the Anointed One is born (v.5) and kept safe, the Enemy is metaphorically cast down. How? By the crucifixion of Jesus (v.11) and the message of those who adhere to Jesus' teachings. The dragon then pursues the woman and makes war with her offspring, the Jews, and specifically against those who have accepted Jesus as Anointed One (v.17). If the teachings of Jesus were the reason that the dragon was cast down, then the dragon would make war with the followers of Jesus. That is Christians and not Jews. Jews deny Christ as the Anointed One. Am I missing something? Revelation was written to a Jewish Christian audience. Remember that the earliest Christians were converted Jews. Gentiles began to dominate Christianity later. Early Christians believed that in order to be Christian you had to first be Jewish. The book is written as a series of letters to churches in Jewish communities. Context is everything.
April 9, 200818 yr The Revelation is troublesome. It is filled with such powerful and, at times, easily-identifiable imagery. It is not possible, in my mind, to read Revelation and not see Rome. All historical documents are products of the place and time in which they are written. And yet, make no mistake, there will be a final judgment; Christ Himself spoke of it vividly. Revelation is more than an historical document, it is the eternal, immutable word of God, no matter how confounding it may be to those who must try and discern God's plan for mankind. I don't know what form that day will take but it will certainly be great and terrible to behold. "...Remember, merciful Jesus, that I am the cause of your journey, do not lose me on that day. You wearied yourself in finding me. You have redeemed me through the cross. Let not such great efforts be in vain. O judge of vengeance, justly make a gift of your forgiveness before the day of reckoning...." The above is taken from a very ancient hymn, "Dies Irae." I think it may be one of the most beautiful ever written, capturing both the vengeance and the mercy that Our Lord will show on the last day.
April 10, 200818 yr Our New Testament Professor, gave us bonus points if we went through the Passion of The Christ, and Left Behind, and found 40 things wrong with each of them. I'm curious as to how you "prove" that Left Behind is wrong. If you're working on the assumption that their pre-millenial, pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is wrong, then it would be like shooting fish in a barrel...however, how do you prove something when you have to assume something from the word go? I mean, how can we know what is and isn't wrong in the Left Behind story until Christ returns and we can look at it in hindsight? I believe the Book of Revelation prophesies future events. I don't, however, believe that Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins have given us a script for what's going to happen...to clarify, everyone who believes the Book of Revelation is a prophecy of the future doesn't by default believe that the Left Behind series are newly canonized books of the Bible. The ironic thing is, I don't ignore the historical context and the parallels you can draw with the Roman empire. I think the book was purposely written so Christians through the centuries could find parallels/similarities to apply to their current situation and find hope in the truth that God will ultimately set things straight. I do think there will be an ultimate and complete fulfillment of the prophesies in the book.
April 10, 200818 yr Author I'm curious as to how you "prove" that Left Behind is wrong. If you're working on the assumption that their pre-millenial, pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is wrong, then it would be like shooting fish in a barrel...however, how do you prove something when you have to assume something from the word go? I mean, how can we know what is and isn't wrong in the Left Behind story until Christ returns and we can look at it in hindsight? I believe the Book of Revelation prophesies future events. I don't, however, believe that Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins have given us a script for what's going to happen...to clarify, everyone who believes the Book of Revelation is a prophecy of the future doesn't by default believe that the Left Behind series are newly canonized books of the Bible. The ironic thing is, I don't ignore the historical context and the parallels you can draw with the Roman empire. I think the book was purposely written so Christians through the centuries could find parallels/similarities to apply to their current situation and find hope in the truth that God will ultimately set things straight. I do think there will be an ultimate and complete fulfillment of the prophesies in the book. I would like to discuss this idea further; what else needs to be fullfilled? I have heard people say that things need to be fullfilled, but what? Is it a checklist... if so then how could Jesus "he would come like a theif in the night"? I get confussed, please help in this regard
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