This is a link to an article that defines the biblical position (all aspects) of baptism. I really don't expect many to agree but you are arguing with the Word of God, not me. http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0205.htm

 

From the article....

 

To find out who Christ gave this authority, turn with me in your Bible to Matt. 28: 19-20 where we read these words, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Here then is the commandment given to baptize. To whom was it given? When we find this answer we have the authority of baptism. In verse 16 of Matt. 28 we see to whom Jesus was investing the authority of baptism. "then the eleven went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them."

 

If the Baptist Church indicates that I as a Christian have no authority to baptize because of their interpretation of Matthew 28, than does that mean that I have no responsibility on in making disciples of people? That the full weight of bringing people to Christ lies on the shoulders of the minister?

On Jesus' baptism by John. Did not John also allow his disciples to baptize? So the disciples of John were baptizing and not just him. Just as Jesus' disciples were baptizing including Judas.

 

As a Disciple of Christ, why then can I not baptize too? If you are a follower of Christ, why couldn't you baptize?

 

I am not trying to argue with Baptists but rather this question has always perplexed me and I am asking points for clarification.

On Jesus' baptism by John. Did not John also allow his disciples to baptize? So the disciples of John were baptizing and not just him. Just as Jesus' disciples were baptizing including Judas.

 

As a Disciple of Christ, why then can I not baptize too? If you are a follower of Christ, why couldn't you baptize?

 

I am not trying to argue with Baptists but rather this question has always perplexed me and I am asking points for clarification.

 

First of all, I do understand that you are not trying to argue. So here goes, the authority comes from a local new testament body of believers whose authority has come from God. (Church authority is, however, another topic) When a believer is baptized they are baptized into the membership of a local new testament church. Since the pastor is the undershepherd of the flock he has been given authority.

First of all, I do understand that you are not trying to argue. So here goes, the authority comes from a local new testament body of believers whose authority has come from God. (Church authority is, however, another topic) When a believer is baptized they are baptized into the membership of a local new testament church. Since the pastor is the undershepherd of the flock he has been given authority.

 

Interesting. So I was not baptized by an Ordained Minister. I was baptized by a brother in Christ. So in your church's view my baptism is invalidated or not authentic? I also have baptized someone. So their baptism "didn't take" because I am not an ordained Minister?

So now the topic has turned to who can baptize who?

 

Hounds has found some verses to support his position, but like anything else I believe that we must examine the verses in question and see if it relates to other passages!

 

So what is the context of the passage? That is my question for anyone

 

Second, for those saying christians can baptize other christians, is that supported? If so where? And again what is the context of the passage?

 

A lot of questions need to be answered before an opinion can be made!

From the article....

 

To find out who Christ gave this authority, turn with me in your Bible to Matt. 28: 19-20 where we read these words, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Here then is the commandment given to baptize. To whom was it given? When we find this answer we have the authority of baptism. In verse 16 of Matt. 28 we see to whom Jesus was investing the authority of baptism. "then the eleven went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them."

 

If the Baptist Church indicates that I as a Christian have no authority to baptize because of their interpretation of Matthew 28, than does that mean that I have no responsibility on in making disciples of people? That the full weight of bringing people to Christ lies on the shoulders of the minister?

 

I have the same question. The article seems to want to put The great Commission backwards. The mountain has little do with it. The Great Commission is fairly clear:

 

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

 

That means everyone who becomes a Christian becomes a Disciple of Jesus. If authority to baptize was given to the Disciples- who then went and made us all Disciples- then anyone who is an immersed believer in Christ should then have authority to Baptize. The Great Commission doesn't apply to a few- it applies to everyone. Everyone needs to be involved in it's fulfillment in some way, shape, or form. How can a Christian be involved in fulfilling that command if we are limited by man-made Church authority?

 

As for the original subject of being baptized again I believe if God calls you do something then you should do it. If God calls one to be immersed again then that person should do it. I haven't been. When I was baptized at 19 that was incredible and powerful experienced. It transformed me forever. Maybe if I fell away and then came back I would feel the need?

Interesting. So I was not baptized by an Ordained Minister. I was baptized by a brother in Christ. So in your church's view my baptism is invalidated or not authentic? I also have baptized someone. So their baptism "didn't take" because I am not an ordained Minister?

 

Your baptism did not meet criteria of scriptural baptism. If you would come for membership in our church you would have to submit to be re-baptized so to speak. Honestly, I am not trying to ruffle feathers this is directly from God's Word. It is definitely not popular and probably not considered politically correct. But God's Word is God's Word.

Your baptism did not meet criteria of scriptural baptism. If you would come for membership in our church you would have to submit to be re-baptized so to speak. Honestly, I am not trying to ruffle feathers this is directly from God's Word. It is definitely not popular and probably not considered politically correct. But God's Word is God's Word.

 

I think you and I see God's word differently. :thumb: But that's okay. I was interested in your stance and you gave it to me. I appreciate your honesty.

Wonder if God really cares? My guess he has bigger things on his plate.

 

 

 

 

Who says who can or can not baptize someone?

 

Another link to answer some of your questions. http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0586.htm

Your baptism did not meet criteria of scriptural baptism. If you would come for membership in our church you would have to submit to be re-baptized so to speak. Honestly, I am not trying to ruffle feathers this is directly from God's Word. It is definitely not popular and probably not considered politically correct. But God's Word is God's Word.

 

I am not sure that it is from the word of God as the link you provided makes inferences where direct Scripture is not there.

 

The view of the Great Commission is an example.

 

I have enjoyed the discussion and it has given me some new things to consider.

Great comebacks. Crawdads was really good. Girl, you sound like a preacher.

 

On the thief, Jesus saved him face to face and he was forgiven on the spot. Jesus hadn't died yet. Once he died and rose we had to go to the new Law.

 

Very interesting thread friend. In Acts 2:38 we read "And Peter said unto them Repent and be baptized each and everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit." The word and is a conjoining junction. that means you can't take one without the other. We have a action and a result from that action here. As Alabama Larry said previously the thief was saved while the old covenant was still in effect. When Christ died and the temples curtain was rent we entered into the New Covenant then. Things are different under this covenant.

Another link to answer some of your questions. http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0586.htm

 

It does not seem that it is totally built on Scripture. And I agree with you that these things need to be built on what Scripture says. Comments from the article....

 

But we do not believe that God does that today, and we think it would be presumption on the part of any man to claim such a thing.

 

It seems there view of their baptism being the only one is simply they believe that the Baptist church is the ONLY true church of God and Jesus. All others are false preachers. That would include me as a false preacher and not a Jesus follower.

Baptism / Baptiso means immersion. Baptism is an act of obedience after salvation ---a picture of the gospel (death, burial and ressurection) but plays no part in salvation itself. Baptism does not wash away sin only the blood of Christ can do that. In order to have proper baptism there are certain criteria that must be met.

1. There must be a proper candidate. A proper candidate is a born-again believer who desires to be obedient after their public profession of faith and follow the Lord in baptism.

2. There must be a proper mode. That would be immersion. Not sprinkling but total immersion.

3. There must be a proper administrator with proper authority. A proper administrator is the person that a local assembly of baptised believers have (local church) given authority to administer this ordinance. This is usually the Pastor.

 

Baptism is how an individual becomes a member of a local new testament assembly (local church). Other ways of becoming a member of a local church is by letter from another church of like faith and order that practices scriptural baptism and does not accept alien immersion (baptism from a church that baptizes without meeting the above criteria.) Being baptized again could happen when and if a person realizes that they made a false profession of faith and therefore their previous baptism becomes null and void or if they have been baptized in such a manner that does not meet the scriptural criteria listed above. Baptism is a beautiful picture of the amazing Grace of God but plays absolutely no part in salvation itself.

One word here ... :scared: WHAT ???? :scared: I Peter 3:21.

One word here ... :scared: WHAT ???? :scared: I Peter 3:21.

 

This verse has been misused time and time again. Peter is simply making a comparison between the waters of the flood and the waters of baptism. Verse 21 is the key verse in question: "And corresponding to that [the water of the flood], baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Now there are some denominations that love this verse because it seems at first to support the view called "baptismal regeneration." That is, baptism does something to the candidate: it saves by bringing about new birth. So, for example, one of the baptismal liturgies for infants says, "Seeing now, dearly beloved brethren, that this child is regenerate, and grafted into the body of Christ's Church, let us give thanks." However, it clearly does not. Peter seems very aware that his words are open to dangerous misuse. This is why, as soon as they are out of his mouth, as it were, he qualifies them lest we take them the wrong way. In verse 21 he does say, "Baptism now saves you" - that sounds like the water has a saving effect in and of itself apart from faith. He knows that is what it sounds like and so he adds immediately, "Not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (Or your version might have: "the pledge of a good conscience toward God"). But the point seems to be this: When the verse speaks of baptism saving, Peter says, I don't mean that the water, immersing the body and cleansing the flesh, is of any saving effect; what I mean is that, insofar as baptism is "an appeal to God for a good conscience," (or is "a pledge of a good conscience toward God"), it saves. Paul said in Romans 10:13, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - everyone who appeals to the Lord - will be saved." Paul does not mean that faith alone fails to save. He means that faith calls on God. That's what faith does. Now Peter is saying, "Baptism is the God-ordained, symbolic expression of that call to God. It is an appeal to God - either in the form of repentance or in the form of commitment. This verse clearly does not mean that baptism saves. It is a picture, a commitment, a declaration made publicly that the person is now redeemed and a part of the family of God.

I've done some more research on the site you have provided and I'm not sure where the argument is being made that a Immersed Believer in Christ is not a Disciple. You said:

 

The Bible for one. John 3:22 reads:"After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judea and there he tarried with them and baptized." John 4:2 reads, "Jesus Himself baptized not, but his disciples." These two passages emphasize how Jesus committed the ordinances of baptism to His disciples, giving them the authority to baptize.

 

So if that's the case the Great Commission CLEARLY gives me or anyone who is has been baptized authority to baptize because we have become disciples.

 

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

 

You said:

 

Scriptural baptism must not only be administered by one who has divine authority,

 

If we are to obey the word of God when one Disciple baptizes another into Christ that person then becomes a Disciple! A immersed believer then becomes someone who has been given "divine authority." That is what the Word of God says. Whether a "church" ordains us or not is irrelevant. We are ALL called to be Ministers. Some of us are called to minister in different ways, but we are all Ministers. We all are commanded to fulfill the Great Commission and we can only do that if we make Disciples and we can't make Disciples if we aren't Disciples ourselves. It is not enough to sit on the sidelines, EVERYONE is called to serve the Kingdom of God.